Hi Folks,
looking for help with Setting up a Control Room Scenario with Cubase 5, Motif XS8, Aphex Headpod 4 and a pair of Infrasonic Monitor Speakers.

What is the best setup for a homerecording session with two rooms. One “Control Room” and one “Recording Room” with Mic and a singer?

Thank you´s for any help and

all the best to all of you

Hi planetrokka,

It’s quite difficult to suggest how you should set up the equipment you’ve listed until you tell us more about the two different rooms.  You may also need some lengthy cables if you end up using two rooms.

The basic idea of a control room in a recording studio, as you probably know, is to provide isolation between the space or ‘live room’ where your singers or musicians will perform, and the studio equipment. 

Further isolation is often used by means of a machine room, off to the side of the control room, where noisy studio equipment such as computers are situated. I was recently in a climate controlled machine room which was pretty noisy.

The result of this kind of layout is good isolation and the quietest possible listening environment.

Think about that in relation to your home and consider if you actually need to isolate anything or record in a separate room for a specific reason.  The other room may just sound good for example.

You have a good headphone amplifier which can run several pairs of headphones at once and that’s a good amount of isolation on its own, and would enable you and your singer to record and listen on headphones, in the same room, at the same time.  Then, when you’re done recording, you can use the monitors again.

What I’m saying, is that you don’t necessarily have to use two rooms just because that’s what happens in recording studios. 

What you need is a GOOD reason to use two separate rooms, and then you can set up your equipment accordingly, and we can certainly help you with that.

The equipment you’ve listed is a nice small set up and could be used in a number of ways.

Hiho,

there’s a few things to consider here, which are almost independent from the hardware used:

Don’t use the same monitor-config for artist and engineer. Never. The artist has to get her undisturbed mix, while the engineer has to drill down on something ‘strange’ he hears… so: Two mixes. Good if there is an option for then engineer to listen to the musicians cue, but is has to be a seperate one.

For the engineer, latency is not an issue.

For the performer, it is crucial. A singer might be able to deal with a 8 msec; a pianist won’t!
So: Always supply direct monitoring for the artist for their performances. Pilot-takes or Playbacks can be delayed, that’s no an issue as long as the delay is constant and there is no crosstalk over the headphones.
Keep in mind that it might be necessary to supply some kind of eq or even reverb for a singer to make their monitor-mix more enjoyable. (not to be overdone...) You cannot take the reverb from cubase, cos that would mean latency, so the good ol’ microverb might come in handy here. (just on the phone, not on the recorded signal)

I dont remember if c5 already has controlroom features, but do not overestimate those: you’ll be stuck with quite some delay.

hth, best,
case

cbr_case - 10 March 2017 11:48 AM

Hiho,

there’s a few things to consider here, which are almost independent from the hardware used:

Don’t use the same monitor-config for artist and engineer. Never. The artist has to get her undisturbed mix, while the engineer has to drill down on something ‘strange’ he hears… so: Two mixes. Good if there is an option for then engineer to listen to the musicians cue, but is has to be a seperate one.

For the engineer, latency is not an issue.

For the performer, it is crucial. A singer might be able to deal with a 8 msec; a pianist won’t!
So: Always supply direct monitoring for the artist for their performances. Pilot-takes or Playbacks can be delayed, that’s no an issue as long as the delay is constant and there is no crosstalk over the headphones.
Keep in mind that it might be necessary to supply some kind of eq or even reverb for a singer to make their monitor-mix more enjoyable. (not to be overdone...) You cannot take the reverb from cubase, cos that would mean latency, so the good ol’ microverb might come in handy here. (just on the phone, not on the recorded signal)

I dont remember if c5 already has controlroom features, but do not overestimate those: you’ll be stuck with quite some delay.

hth, best,
case

None of that is independent from the hardware.  It’s all 100 percent dependent on it.

Why would a singer tolerate more latency than a pianist? Latency problems would be really horrible for both of them surely?

The thread starter hasn’t mentioned owning a microverb either.  He’s got a Motif XS8 and Cubase.  What that means is that it’s logical to predict that since the XS8 comes with firewire built in, that he’s using it for his interface.

Notice how Phil presumes nothing and you reel off everything you know from your own point of view, and very little of it is relevant to using a Motif XS8 to record using one room as a control room and one room as a recording room.

Just sayin…

That’s a good spot, but let’s wait and see what the OP says? 

Yes, no other audio interface was mentioned, but it might be by accident.

If they’re planning on using the XS8 as an audio interface, then they’ve got firewire cable maximum length to consider, unless they’re planning on running long mic and long headphones extension cables between the rooms.

This is why studios have wall boxes and high quality multicores running neatly through the building.

In this case, It all depends on what’s actually happening, and we don’t really know that yet.  The XS8 may need to be situated near the vocalist, as well.  It then becomes a bit of a puzzle, because the XS8 could also be the interface as you’ve predicted, and will need to be fairly close to the computer.  Even the quietest computers in the world can be a noise problem, and the OP is using Cubase, so it’s safe to presume he has a computer of some kind.

What I’m interested in is whether or not using two spaces for different purposes in a home, in this situation, is actually worth anything at all, because it will throw up challenges, whereas situating everyone and everything in one room might not throw up as many.  Shorter cables can be used for a start.

Here again. First I wanna thank you for help. here are some more Infos

One good reason for me is I want to fully exploit the possibilities of my Motif XS in diffrent recording situations. I want to learn more about cubase and Motif integration. Cubase 5 has the control room function.

Second reason is: I have 2 adjoining rooms for making this possible.

I have the matching, high-Quality cables in the correct lenght.

The recording room measures 3m x 2,50m and is equiped with acoustic elements. Recording vocals in this room sounds way better than in the other room. This room is absolutely quiet enough for a good Mic. The other room is not. Cable lenght is 10m.

In this recording room I´ve done a modification for the mic to prevent subsonic. I made me a stable mic-mount on the ceiling of this room.

So I had created already certain cinditions in advance, I would like to use now.Provided the Motif offers the possibilities to me technically

Again Thanks for any help

Does the Motif XS8 need to be near the singer for any reason?

What kind of Mic are you intending to use?

Have you got open or closed headphones?

How do you intend to communicate with the singer, presuming you will be in the room you’re using as a control room?

Is there any more equipment you haven’t told us about?

I’m sure you will have a lot of fun using your Motif to record.  It should be perfectly fine for tracking vocals.

@philwoodmusic thanks again for your interest.
The Motif has ist’s fixed place in the control room. No Reason for the Motif to be near the singer.

Espacially since the Motif’s place is my place for song writing. It’s a good place for the monitors and my ears and I’m used to his quirks. And I love this place ;-)

I use diffrent Mic’s. Shure SM7b or a Audio Technica 4033a or Neumann TLM 103D.

I own a TC Electronics Gold Channel and use it, when I want to record something with the TLM103D. Because the Motif offers no digital input.

At the moment communication with the artist runs of eye contact since there is a small but sufficiently large window in the partition wall.
I’m planing to buy something like a presonus central station or monitor station for this job.

what do you mean with any more equipment Phil?
I have in fact more equipment but is the called equipment not enough or no good for this type of application?

greetings

You know, the more I read over your replies, the more I wonder if your actual question is actually about Cubase and not how to set up a studio control room and recording space, with the equipment you have, in your home?

That’s really all I thought your question was about, but it seems you’ve already done that.

When I mentioned about other equipment, I really just wanted the fullest picture of your set up possible and then I was going to tell you how I would set it all up. Maybe that’s not what you’re asking?

Is there something in particular that you need to learn how to do?

Can I use the Motif Main Outputs (incl. SPDIF Output)
and the assignable Outputs at the same time,
so that the Motif Main Outs feed the Monitor with a control room Mix or Main Mix and the assignable Outs feeding the Headpod with independent Cue-Mix for the singer?

Which Motif settings are necessary for this in Song mode?

At the time I´m engaged with the Cubase Control Room function.
I think I will need the knowledge.

@philwoodmusic

found the topic “Cue mix for performer” where you answered to Odysseas

This is what I´m looking for with Motif XS. I don´t know the MOX synth.

Is something like that possible with Motif as well?

I have a very limited knowledge of Cubase, but I’d be amazed if it can’t be done.

That conversation you mentioned was about using an auxiliary during recording.

You can certainly create an aux track next to your vocal track, put a reverb plugin or whatever you need on it and use the send from your audio track to send a copy of the vocal track to it.  it might not be the most elegant way of doing it though and may make things sound more latent.

If nobody else can help you with exact instructions for Cubase 5, I’d take your question to a steinberg forum.

This link may come in handy, but I don’t know for sure if it’s relevant to your version of Cubase.

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=119044

After a long serch I found everything I need.

And yes, I use Motif assignable outs now.
They are going into an old Yamaha 01X for monitoring.
After setting up the Cubase Control Room functions, I´ve found out about Cubase Studio Sends funtion in the project mixer window, from where I can route tracks to the assignable outs.

spdif out of the Motif into the Aphex Headpot allow me to listen to Main or Studio mix via phones, so now I can use Motifs master volume fader to turn monitor speaker volume down while recording.

All works and sounds well now

thank´s for your Inputs @philwoodmusic
Duke was great

You’re welcome, although I’m not really sure what I did to help you, but I’m glad you’ve done what you wanted to.

Duke certainly was great!

@philwoodmusic

You inspired me to don´t give up my search.

And when I found that older post between you and Odysseas

somehow everything became clear and logic to me.

Help really can be very subtile ;-) All good.

Peace & Cheers