When i completed the 1.2 Upgrade, i discovered that the Flash Memory in my XF was showing as being there, but there were No waveforms on the list. (Thanks to Bad Mister’s advice in another thread, i HAD the backup files).

Is it normal for this to happen during a Firmware upgrade? ..perhaps i should i have rebooted the XF back into Factory Standard mode Prior to upgrading?
I am reading other Posts about this now too. My voices were all showing “Initialized Master”.
After many hours of reformatting and reloading and restoring, i am good to go again, but would like to know if this might somehow be avoided in the future?

blu vu studio - 09 July 2011 02:31 AM

When i completed the 1.2 Upgrade, i discovered that the Flash Memory in my XF was showing as being there, but there were No waveforms on the list. (Thanks to Bad Mister’s advice in another thread, i HAD the backup files).

Is it normal for this to happen during a Firmware upgrade? ..perhaps i should i have rebooted the XF back into Factory Standard mode Prior to upgrading?
I am reading other Posts about this now too. My voices were all showing “Initialized Master”.
After many hours of reformatting and reloading and restoring, i am good to go again, but would like to know if this might somehow be avoided in the future?

I lost the waveforms too on first reboot, but once I reloaded the backups as it says in the upgrade instructions they all reappeared. I didn’t need to reformat or reload the flash memory or anything, just the backup files. Everything else came back ok

Mike

I saw the same warning message but wisely declined to reformat the flash, reloaded the backup file and was good to go.

On a technical level there shouldn’t be a need for the FLASH memory to be erased unless something changed at the way the memory was used. (Adressing of the data located in the FLASH memory)
The details describing the changes of the firmware don’t indicated something was changed regarding FLASH memory usage.

So either way something indeed has changed or the update erases the FLASH memory for no reason whatsoever. I suspect the latter.

It is really not that difficult - what is necessary is to understand where and what information the Motif XF is keeping in memory.

First, let’s state this for the record: You will not lose the data installed on your Flash Boards when you upgrade your unit to version 1.20

What you may have experienced is when the instrument is upgraded and a Factory Reset is performed, your WAVEFORM LIST (the list that appears on the following screen):
[UTILITY] > [F6] FLASH ... if that list is blank - do not panic - all you need to do is load your ALL data file. But it should not be blank unless you removed your FL Boards and reset your instrument.

However you got there - it will not matter you can easily recover:
When you run into the condition where no WAVEFORMS appear on the list but the FL Board’s statistics clearly indicate that your FLASH BOARD has data on them (that is, the total size of the FL Board is reported and the amount of free memory reports that your installed data is actually on the Board) what you need to do in this instance is simply restore the WAVEFORM List.

The WAVEFORM LIST is written to the FLASH ROM memory on-board the Motif XF. (And is not typically removed by an update, as far as I know - although I have not tested updating from all previous versions - and will not).

All that you need to do in a situation where your data is installed on the FLASH BOARD but the Waveform List is empty (no matter how you got to that situation):

LOAD your ALL data file setting the MEMORY LOAD options as follows:
USR > USR
FL1 > FL1 without sample
FL2 > FL2 without sample

The “FL1 without sample” and “FL2 without sample” will literally load the information about how each sample is used (the WAVEFORM LIST) back to memory - it will repopulate the WAVEFORM List - if, for whatever reason, you purged it.

When discussing the FLASH MEMORY we are always careful to state “SAMPLES and WAVEFORMS”. Understanding the distinction as used here is critical:

The Samples refer to the LARGE AUDIO data (which we all know takes a very long time to move)
The Waveforms here, refer to the rather small “pointer” data which tells the instrument where and how to use each bit of audio. These pointers TOTAL are a few KB in size and take only seconds to load - in comparison to the sampled data.

The WAVEFORM LIST (these pointers) are held in your Motif XF between power cycles and will only be removed by some unusual efforts to remove them. Physically removing the FLASH boards and then Factory Resetting your instrument, will remove them. But if you update your XF while the FLASH BOARDS are physically in their slots, your Waveform List should not be impacted at all and most certainly the data on the FLASH BOARDS is not impacted, at all.

If ever your WAVEFORM LIST disappears and your FLASH boards show they still hold the SAMPLE data, then all you need to do is repopulate the WAVEFORM LIST:

This is the purpose, the raison d’etre (the reason to be), for FL1 without sample and FL2 without sample as options on the LOAD side of the FILE options screen: to REPOPULATE the Waveform List when your samples are already installed on your FLASH BOARDS.

Say you go on the road, and encounter a strange Motif XF (that is, one that is not your own - you got from Backline at the big concert)… and you have your FL512 and FL1024 boards… when you place the boards in this new XF, it will now have your SAMPLES, but it will not have your WAVEFORMS - make sense?

You therefore need to populate the WAVEFORM LIST of this new XF… you do so by Loading your ALL Data file but selecting the MEMORY LOAD options in the lower right corner of the FILE screen so that you are loading “FLx without samples” - Make sense?

I have a different issue after the 1.2 update.  I backed up my pre-1.2 data to 2 different ALL files and proceeded to setup the wireless function with a Yamaha-approved WiFi adapter.  After an hour of successful wireless operation, my connection was lost and after a few days of troubleshooting the issue I decided to do another factory reset thus wiping out any wireless information I had previously stored and starting over from scratch.  Unfortunately, now I cannot restore my previous ALL files to my XF and I receive a “WAVEFORM FULL” message when trying to load either backup--each with a file size of less than 3MB!  However, I can restore older and much larger ALL files from my XS Motif.  My XF backups have the following convention:  XFBACKUP.N3.X3A and I’ve restored them before successfully prior to updating to the 1.2 firmware.

Any help greatly appreciated.

I have a different issue after the 1.2 update.

A different issue is worthy of a separate thread - otherwise your answer gets buried in a thread that is all over the place.

I backed up my pre-1.2 data to 2 different ALL files and proceeded to setup the wireless function with a Yamaha-approved WiFi adapter.  After an hour of successful wireless operation, my connection was lost and after a few days of troubleshooting the issue I decided to do another factory reset thus wiping out any wireless information I had previously stored and starting over from scratch.  Unfortunately, now I cannot restore my previous ALL files to my XF and I receive a “WAVEFORM FULL” message when trying to load either backup--each with a file size of less than 3MB!  However, I can restore older and much larger ALL files from my XS Motif.  My XF backups have the following convention:  XFBACKUP.N3.X3A and I’ve restored them before successfully prior to updating to the 1.2 firmware.

We are very confused. This thread is named “1.2 Firmware Wiped out my Flash Memory”.

Yet you make no mention of even having Flash Memory. Do you?
We ask because the file you made, “XFBACKUP.n3.X3A” tells us that that it contains NO data for either FL1 or FL2.

Is that correct?

Just so you know:
A file with the extension .n1.X3A contains Samples and Waveforms for Slot 2
A file with the extension .n2.X3A contain Samples and Waveforms for Slot 1
A file with the extension .n3.X3A contains no Samples or Waveforms for either slot

You can take that letter ‘n’ to mean “no samples”
n1 = no samples for slot 1
n2 = no samples for slot 2
n3 = no samples for the FLASH BOARDS at all.

A Waveform Full message would appear when:
1) You have more than 128 WAVEFORMS in SDRAM (USR) memory
2) You have more than 2048 Waveforms directed at one of the FL Boards

Since we are not even sure you have Flash Boards, we cannot really answer why you are getting a Waveform Full message. Please fill in the details for us, thanks.

Bad_Mister - 09 July 2011 04:57 PM

Since we are not even sure you have Flash Boards, we cannot really answer why you are getting a Waveform Full message. Please fill in the details for us, thanks.

Certainly, I have (1) 1024MB flash board installed in slot 1.  On this flash board there exists 1500 waveforms totaling 516MB consisting of the Inspiration in a Flash content and the Yamaha oak drumset samples from the XS era. 

I created the first backup after successfully populating the flash board with the content and without any user-ram being used.  The second backup I created was done after I had restored the original backup after updating the firmware to version 1.2.  Similarly, no user-ram was being used at that time and each backup was saved with WITHOUT SAMPLE selected. 

When I try to load either backup, the following choices are selected:

LOAD:
USER->USER
FL1->FL1
FL2->FL2

If you have already installed the Samples and Waveforms to your FL1024 in slot 1, then every time after, you should be loading using:

USR > USR
FL1 > None
FL2 > None

Each time you attempted to load your ALL data file with the setup FL1 > FL1 you duplicated the WAVEFORM data on your WAVEFORM List.

I do not recall the exact number but the INSPIRATION IN A FLASH data only contained about 350 or so Waveforms. Please check your WAVEFORM LIST - not sure why you have 1550 Waveforms (that sounds like way, way, way too many). You have been duplicating your Waveforms

Press [UTILITY]
Press [F6] FLASH

Here you can move the cursor down to the LIST and then use the DATA WHEEL to run down the list. We are pretty sure you have been duplicating WAVEFORMS by improperly setting the LOAD Options on the File screen

Duplicate WAVEFORMS on the list can avoided by using the correct LOAD option.

Let us know the exact extension of your other ALL data file. Hopefully, you made one before you duplicated the WAVEFORMS with the extension:

.n2.X3A

Which would mean you have a backup of your Inspiration data + the Oak Drum data.
If not we will have to talk you through recreating it.

Let us know.

Yes, it appears that I’ve been duplicating my flash content and, unfortunately, those are the only 2 backups I have (n3 format).  At this point I would either delete the duplicates and restore my previous backup with the correct load format or just reformat the flash board and populate it with the 2 libraries.  The latter seems actually easier than deleting 1000 wave forms.  Is there an easier option?

Thanks for the help BM!

At this point I would either delete the duplicates and restore my previous backup with the correct load format or just reformat the flash board and populate it with the 2 libraries.  The latter seems actually easier than deleting 1000 wave forms.  Is there an easier option?

The latter is definitely the easier way to go.

In general what you want to do is the following:

Format your FL1024M - this will initialize it completely.
Then you want to load each library targeting the Flash boards.

When you load the “Inspiration In a Flash” data, you want to direct the data as follows:

USR > USR
FL1 > FL1*
FL2 > FL2

The INSPIRATION data contains samples original created and housed on FL1 (Slot 1), and so you want to make sure *FL1 > FL1 is selected

You mentioned the OAK KIT: we are not sure which Oak kit you are referring to - you know that both the Maple and Oak kits are a part of the 8 new Drum Kits added to the Motif XF PRESET WAVE ROM. The Oak Custom Kit can be found at USER DR: 002(A02)

Try it out and see - you may not even need to load that other XS Oak kit. I’m pretty sure it is the same data.

Once you have installed the Samples and Waveforms of the “InspirationInAFlash.X3A”, this will place (install) the audio sample data on your FL1024M and the Waveform data (which sample goes where) will populate the WAVEFORM LIST (UTILITY > [F6] FLASH).

You will see you have loaded 353 WAVEFORMS.

Once installed and once the WAVEFORM LIST is populated, even if you load other ALL data files, you should never have to install the SAMPLE or WAVEFORM data again - until you FORMAT the FLASH BOARD.

The Waveform List will remain between power cycles.
The Samples on your FLASH board will remain.

The Waveform List will remain even if you load other libraries
The Samples on your FLASH will remain as well.

If you want to install additional Samples and Waveforms, remember it will not overwrite data on the WAVEFORM LIST, it will not overwrite data installed on the Flash Board. New Waveforms are added to the end of the list.

When you wish to load back the Inspiration Voices, make sure you set the LOAD options:

USR > USR
FL1 > NONE*
FL2 > NONE

The “NONE” option means, your Waveform List is in tact, your Samples on the FL1 Board are in tact, you only need to load the VOICES, PERFORMANCES, SONGS, PATTERNS, ARPS, MASTERS…

If ever your WAVEFORM LIST is missing (and you have to try really hard to lose this WAVEFORM LIST - it cannot be lost easily), that is when you LOAD the ALL file using the “FL1 > FL1 without sample” option. You are restoring the WAVEFORM list without loading (installing) samples to the FLASH BOARD.

Please see the article “FLASH MEMORY EXPANSION MODULES” in the SUPPORT area for more details.

Thanks BM!  I appreciate the detailed walk-through and I’ll educate myself more via the provided link.  Regarding the oak drums, I believe they are separate kits; one being the Yamaha Oak released as a free download a few years ago and the included Yamaha Oak Custom kit included on the XF.  I prefer the straight oak as the resonance of the drums really translates in a mix.

Bad_Mister - 09 July 2011 10:45 AM

It is really not that difficult - what is necessary is to understand where and what information the Motif XF is keeping in memory.

You therefore need to populate the WAVEFORM LIST of this new XF… you do so by Loading your ALL Data file but selecting the MEMORY LOAD options in the lower right corner of the FILE screen so that you are loading “FLx without samples” - Make sense?

BM....again, as always, Thank You for the great help and information. This is making much more sense now, i Truly appreciate your help navigating the mirky Motif waters!