Hi guys I’m wondering how could I retrieve 3 waveforms or samples from the classic Motif or from the Motif ES and import them into my new MOXF and also re-create some voices associated to these samples. I love the voice numbers #4 CP80 and #5 CP80&Ep;(A04 and A05) on the classic Motif and I’d like my MOXF to sound the same or as close as possible.

If you check the data list file (PDF) of both units (Classic Motif and the MOXF) you’ll notice that the most recent keyboard (MOXF) doesn’t include the voice names nor the waveforms or samples. It seems like the CP80 samples from the classic Motif were replaced with some CP70 samples. Please check the attached pictures and the links below for a better understanding.

The classic Motif contains three samples named like this: CP80, CP80+ and CP80-, which are waveforms 23, 24 and 25 respectively. I don’t have access to a classic Motif now but I own a Motif ES that contains the indicated samples and just the voice called CP80&Ep;and another voice called HardCP80 that doesn’t sound like patch #4 in the classic Motif.

In a summary:
1) How can I retreive the three samples named CP80 from my Motif ES and import them in my MOXF6? I think I’ll need a Flash board
2) How can I get voice numbers 4 and 5 from a classic Motif and direct their waveforms to the imported CP80 samples if question one could be resolved?

**Classic MOTIF data list PDF
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/341311/Yamaha-Motif-6.html?page=2
**MOTIF ES data list PDF
http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset/file/?language=en&site=ae.yamaha.com&asset_id=7402
**MOXF data list PDF
http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset/file/?language=en&site=ae.yamaha.com&asset_id=60483

Thank you very much

Click thumbnail to see full-size image

Your second question isn’t particularly difficult.
See http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/473177/
Download the ClassicMotifVoices.n3.X3V.zip file I posted.
The Voices in question use the CP70 sample, but can be edited to point to User samples, assuming you have them.

The first question isn’t as easy to resolve. You could resample on the ES, or use some external sampling program. If you do so, I suggest turning off all effects, etc., in order to get as close to the original raw sample as possible. It’s likely to not be much fun if you expect a good outcome. Some sellers claim to have decent CP80 samples - I’ll let you Google for those and decide for yourself.

Yes, the MOXF would need to have a flash module.

There’s a CP80 sample library available from Motifator…
http://shop.motifator.com/index.php/voice-libraries/motif-xf/pianos/electric-grand-for-motif-xf.html
...which is indicated as for the XF. If the file is a .X3A, it could be loaded to an MOXF. (The information says the file is a .X0A, but I suspect that’s an error due to a bad copy/paste from the XS listing.) It got an unflattering review, but with only one person reviewing, it’s hard to determine if it’s fair. Perhaps the demos would help with making a decision.

Here’s an old related thread:
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/458759/

Your second question isn’t particularly difficult.
See http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/473177/
Download the ClassicMotifVoices.n3.X3V.zip file I posted.
The Voices in question use the CP70 sample, but can be edited to point to User samples, assuming you have them.

Thank you very much for your reply, I am really enjoying having the sounds from the MOTIF on my MOXF. I’ve been playing and comparing the ones brought from the MOTIF and the ones from the MOTIF ES that I also downloaded after reading your other posts. I noticed the same patches from the MOTIF and MOTIF ES are slightly different when sounding on the MOXF, I was aware of it. I learned a bit more about changing and tweaking parameters on these keyboards and I almost have them sounding very, very close to how they sounded on their original boards. I’m enjoying these tasks. I noticed that the voice called CP80&EP;sounds brighter and a bit different in my MOTIF ES compared to the one that uses CP70 samples on my MOXF.

In regards of sampling it, I know I could do it from my MOTIF ES and then load the samples on the Flashboard. I wouldn’t like to spend money on purchasing libraries from others since I know I could get the samples as raw as possible. However it makes me ask this:

How could I determine what was the root note of the original samples CP80, CP80+ and CP80-? or are these three waveforms a set of wave files and internally they have been mapped within a file called waveform? and that waveform is what the MOTIF reads or points to for the elements that can be edited in Edit Mode?

Thanks to your information I know I’m getting closer. (I used to sample my own percussion instruments using Kontakt and Vsampler so I know that I can do it, I just need a better understanding of how samples and waveforms work with these keyboards.

Thank you again!

RHproducer - 13 November 2017 04:13 PM

Thank you very much for your reply, I am really enjoying having the sounds from the MOTIF on my MOXF. I’ve been playing and comparing the ones brought from the MOTIF and the ones from the MOTIF ES that I also downloaded after reading your other posts.

You’re very welcome, I’m glad that the files I posted are helpful.

 

RHproducer -

I noticed the same patches from the MOTIF and MOTIF ES are slightly different when sounding on the MOXF, I was aware of it. I learned a bit more about changing and tweaking parameters on these keyboards and I almost have them sounding very, very close to how they sounded on their original boards. I’m enjoying these tasks. I noticed that the voice called CP80&EP;sounds brighter and a bit different in my MOTIF ES compared to the one that uses CP70 samples on my MOXF.

Yes, programming of the “same” Voice on different models often varies somewhat. Of course when different samples are used, that also changes the sound. It’s good that you’re willing to edit Parameters, since that often will lead to the desired sound or one close enough.

 

RHproducer -

In regards of sampling it, I know I could do it from my MOTIF ES and then load the samples on the Flashboard. I wouldn’t like to spend money on purchasing libraries from others since I know I could get the samples as raw as possible. However it makes me ask this:

How could I determine what was the root note of the original samples CP80, CP80+ and CP80-? or are these three waveforms a set of wave files and internally they have been mapped within a file called waveform? and that waveform is what the MOTIF reads or points to for the elements that can be edited in Edit Mode?

Thanks to your information I know I’m getting closer. (I used to sample my own percussion instruments using Kontakt and Vsampler so I know that I can do it, I just need a better understanding of how samples and waveforms work with these keyboards.

It’s possible for mapping of samples within a Waveform to be very basic, but a Waveform often contains multiple samples having various note and/or velocity ranges. Although not the usual case, there can be up to 128 note ranges and 128 velocity ranges within just one Waveform. That’s what makes resampling Waveforms from the ES (or other model) ROM a quite challenging task, especially for something complex like piano. Unless you have a great deal of free time and significant motivation, I think that using the converted Voices and tweaking them as you’re doing is probably a better approach.

Have fun!

It’s possible for mapping of samples within a Waveform to be very basic, but a Waveform often contains multiple samples having various note and/or velocity ranges. Although not the usual case, there can be up to 128 note ranges and 128 velocity ranges within just one Waveform. That’s what makes resampling Waveforms from the ES (or other model) ROM a quite challenging task, especially for something complex like piano. Unless you have a great deal of free time and significant motivation, I think that using the converted Voices and tweaking them as you’re doing is probably a better approach.

Have fun!

I read this article: http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/view/moxf_flash_board
all is making more sense… I’ll keep on learning,
Is it possible to read the parameters in a waveform? like how many samples and what is their root note? I think this challenge will keep me busy and I think I have that “significant motivation” hahah,

If I could figure out how many wave files and their root notes and velocity limits I could take the challenge of sampling them from my MOTIF ES and take the samples into my MOXF. Then I would need to know how to set the waveform parameters in my MOXF to point to the wave files I sampled.

By the way I’m getting prepared for when the Flash board gets shipped to my house (I will purchase a 512 MB one)

Thank you again!

RHproducer - 14 November 2017 03:19 PM

…
Is it possible to read the parameters in a waveform? like how many samples and what is their root note?....

I use and recommend the John Melas Waveform Editor.

RHproducer - 14 November 2017 03:19 PM

[...] Is it possible to read the parameters in a waveform? like how many samples and what is their root note? I think this challenge will keep me busy and I think I have that “significant motivation” hahah,

INTEGRATED SAMPLING Edit mode would allow for the Parameters to be read
- if the Waveforms in ROM weren’t copy protected.

 

RHproducer -

If I could figure out how many wave files and their root notes and velocity limits I could take the challenge of sampling them from my MOTIF ES and take the samples into my MOXF. Then I would need to know how to set the waveform parameters in my MOXF to point to the wave files I sampled.

I suppose by listening carefully you could find the note and velocity ranges for the samples, but in my opinion that would be extremely tedious.

 

RHproducer -

By the way I’m getting prepared for when the Flash board gets shipped to my house (I will purchase a 512 MB one)

Thank you again!

I’m sure you’ll find having that flash memory useful, whether or not CP80 samples will be installed on it.

INTEGRATED SAMPLING Edit mode would allow for the Parameters to be read
- if the Waveforms in ROM weren’t copy protected.

Oh I wasn’t aware of that, so I think I’ll have to recreate my own set of wavefiles like you said by ear and calculating key velocities.

If I want to build up my instruments either the CP80 thing or the samples I made of my own percussion instruments on the MOXF will I need to use Jhon Melas’ editor as if it was the Kontakt editor right? like the ones I sampled for my PC. I haven’t checked his whole site but I think his editor costs 60 Euros.

Thank you for the previous quick response

RHproducer - 14 November 2017 07:14 PM

[...] I think I’ll have to recreate my own set of wavefiles like you said by ear and calculating key velocities.

As I previously mentioned, it’s usually best to work with as raw a sample as possible. If you’re going to extract samples from the ES, I suggest that you first create a Voice having no effects, with amplitude and filter envelopes having no contours other than perhaps the release time being finite. Then you could set the Velocity Curve to a low “fixed” setting while determining the note range being used for each sample. Once you do that across the full keyboard, you could increase the Velocity setting until you find what ranges there might be for that. Take samples based on those findings.

Of course, there are programs that can be used to automate the process. I’m not sure the results will be any better, although it might take less time to accomplish.

 

RHproducer -

If I want to build up my instruments either the CP80 thing or the samples I made of my own percussion instruments on the MOXF will I need to use Jhon Melas’ editor as if it was the Kontakt editor right? like the ones I sampled for my PC. I haven’t checked his whole site but I think his editor costs 60 Euros.

Once you have the appropriate samples, the Melas Waveform Editor, as suggested by cmayhle, would probably be useful. You can download the demo and see if you think it will meet your needs.

 

RHproducer -

Thank you for the previous quick response

No problem.

HI,

I recorded the CP80 samples as raw as possible, perhaps I recorded more than needed and I will be able to test it once I get my Flash board and I’ll download Jhon Melas software.  I noticed there were three perceptible velocity changes A) from 1 to 40, B) 41 to 80 and C) 81 to 127, I recorded then a C and a G from every octave. It’s a total of 30 wave-files around 18 MB. Once I test it I’ll determine if it is possible to get rid of some wavefiles in order to make it weight less. It depends on how it sounds.

Anyways I’m doing this just for the purpose of learning and because I like this kind of stuff since I was able to tweak my MOXF voices using the included CP70 waveforms and I got it sounding 95% of the sound I remember I used to play in the old MOTIF.

I’ve learned something I didn’t think it was possible when I purchased my MOXF. Thank you guys for all the info and willingness to help. I’ll keep on learning and sharing stuff…

RHproducer - 16 November 2017 04:03 PM

HI,

I recorded the CP80 samples as raw as possible, perhaps I recorded more than needed and I will be able to test it once I get my Flash board and I’ll download Jhon Melas software.  I noticed there were three perceptible velocity changes A) from 1 to 40, B) 41 to 80 and C) 81 to 127, I recorded then a C and a G from every octave. It’s a total of 30 wave-files around 18 MB. Once I test it I’ll determine if it is possible to get rid of some wavefiles in order to make it weight less. It depends on how it sounds.

You’re certainly being more diligent than I would be under the circumstances. It seems to be paying off. I hope you succeed in getting a sample set that results in the CP80 sound you’re looking for.

 

RHproducer -

Anyways I’m doing this just for the purpose of learning and because I like this kind of stuff since I was able to tweak my MOXF voices using the included CP70 waveforms and I got it sounding 95% of the sound I remember I used to play in the old MOTIF.

I’ve learned something I didn’t think it was possible when I purchased my MOXF. Thank you guys for all the info and willingness to help. I’ll keep on learning and sharing stuff…

When I first got my XS6, I dove into the Owner’s Manual. However, I soon realized that I learned as much or more (and had more fun) by diving into the XS6 itself - so I think your approach is a “sound” one.

As far as I’m concerned, sharing information is what Motifator forums are all about. Please do continue to let us know how this project progresses.

To get the raw waveforms, you can initialize a voice, turn off all EFX and dial in the CP80 waveform. Tha + and - variations are just the same multisamples with slightly different splitpoints to sound duller(-) or broghter(+).
The init voice has a envelope without decay so the samples will loop forever as long as you press a key. You don’t want to resample a series of long oneshot samples from a preset voice. It’s just too large. The raw samples are merely a few seconds long before they loop. The hardest part is to find these loop points and truncate your samples. There are some sampling editors that can find looppoints automatically, otherwise you’ll have to do it manually.
(no one has said this would be easy… ;) )

In yamaha style, every ROM waveform with velocity layers has variants for any single layer, like the piano and ep waveforms. If there is only one +/-/norm set of the waveform it might not have velocity layers.
To get the split points you’ll have to carefully hear any key next to each other to hear if there’s a change of the sound. I’d suggest to sample the lowest split 1/2 octave below the splitpoint and everything else at the splitpoint.

This somehow reminds me of the good old days where I had to do this for my S330 and later when I created soundfonts from sampling CDs :)

Fnord - 25 November 2017 04:41 AM

To get the raw waveforms, you can initialize a voice, turn off all EFX and dial in the CP80 waveform. Tha + and - variations are just the same multisamples with slightly different splitpoints to sound duller(-) or broghter(+).
The init voice has a envelope without decay so the samples will loop forever as long as you press a key. You don’t want to resample a series of long oneshot samples from a preset voice. It’s just too large. The raw samples are merely a few seconds long before they loop. The hardest part is to find these loop points and truncate your samples. There are some sampling editors that can find looppoints automatically, otherwise you’ll have to do it manually.
(no one has said this would be easy… ;) )

In yamaha style, every ROM waveform with velocity layers has variants for any single layer, like the piano and ep waveforms. If there is only one +/-/norm set of the waveform it might not have velocity layers.
To get the split points you’ll have to carefully hear any key next to each other to hear if there’s a change of the sound. I’d suggest to sample the lowest split 1/2 octave below the splitpoint and everything else at the splitpoint.

This somehow reminds me of the good old days where I had to do this for my S330 and later when I created soundfonts from sampling CDs :)

Oh yes, I remember soundfonts, I had a soundblaster Audigy pro PCI Audio interface and I enjoyed some drum samples I had, I still use some soundfonts I purchased in 2001 from sonicsamples (I thin it is now Sonivox).

Thank you for the information you shared…

Hi guys,

Just letting you know that the sound I needed/wanted when I opened this thread is included in the Vintage Keys Library.

I purchased it a few weeks ago, It works with the CP70 samples, it was a matter of programming. I don’t know why but I felt like the CP70 patches included in my MOXF didn’t respond and didn’t sound as I remembered the Cp80 patch sounded in the Classic Motif, but once I tried the CP70 patch in this library I knew this was what I was looking for.

For the ones that read this thread the first time and are not familiarized with this sound you can check this video, check minute 4:43
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53DFUgczqqk

Greetings!