mySoftware [Updates]

Once you create a user profile on Motifator and update with the appropriate information, the updates shown here will be specific to you.

rssFeeds [Syndicate]


forumforum
 

Old Motifator threads are available in the Archive.

Viewing topic "Possible to control bow instrument strokes?"

     
Posted on: February 05, 2009 @ 08:27 AM
JohnBee
Avatar
Total Posts:  134
Joined  06-14-2008
status: Pro

I want to compose a song that involves violin strokes varying in duration, intensity and vibrato.

Is there a way to achieve this with pedals, knobs etc.
If not… is there a device one could get that could accomplish this?

thx

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 05, 2009 @ 12:02 PM
DavePolich
Total Posts:  6820
Joined  07-27-2002
status: Guru

Re: Possible to control bow instrument strokes?

The Motif XS does not feature separate downstroke and upstroke
bow samples for the stringed instruments. You could carefully
imitate “bow turns” by holding a note for a specific duration (say, 6 seconds or so) and then trigger another note to simulate the bow being turned and started back. A volume/expression pedal, plugged into foot controller 1 on your XS, can simulate intensity.

There are no programmed string “scripts” available for the XS.
The best advice I can give you is to listen very carefully to real
string players (as well as observe them playing, if you can) and
use velocity, expression, pitch bend, mod wheel, and filter controllers to emulate what they do.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 06, 2009 @ 06:52 AM
JohnBee
Avatar
Total Posts:  134
Joined  06-14-2008
status: Pro

Re: Possible to control bow instrument strokes?

Okay thanks for the response. I guess I was asking for a bit much anyways.

Though I managed to replicate a piano & violin piece on the XS, it just never sounded right, and after listening to more samples, I realized just how significant the bow stroke and intensity is in the composition.

If anyone knows of a software DAW Plugin perhaps, I would be more than glad to look into it. It would cool too, if there was an expression device to simulate bow direction and intensity. In fact… when I think of it… why couldn’t we achieve direction and intensity using something like the MOD wheel? The center pos. could be a neutral stroke while either side could control both direction and intensity as well..

For what it’s worth, this is what I’m trying to achieve: [url=http://76.79.78.25/Track05.wma]http://76.79.78.25/Track05.wma [/url]
Well… not this song, but this type of sound…

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 06, 2009 @ 10:27 AM
kevinbower1959
Total Posts:  93
Joined  04-12-2008
status: Experienced

Re: Possible to control bow instrument strokes?

Hi John,

+1 to what Dave says, really.

This is one of those cases where the only possible way of emulating something like that is to attempt to play the keyboard just like a violin - there’s so much feeling and expression in that little piece (lovely .wma file, btw) and so many tiny nuances which go towards making that violin sound the way it does.

Re DAW plugins, I’ve spent a long time working with ProTools in a state-of-the-art studio, and I have to say that I’ve come across 2-3000 orchestral sample sets which still won’t give you exactly what you want. It’s all down to how you play it - but using Dave’s examples of expression control methods should be as good a point as any to start.

Probably the best example of what I’m trying to say, is that Brian May, the guitar player from Queen, once spent two hours shredding away on one of Eddie Van Halen’s guitars, through Eddie Van Halen’s complete stage guitar pedal and amplification rig in a desperate attempt to get ‘that’ world-famous tone. He didn’t - nowhere near. He still sounded like Brian May.

40% of what you hear on that .wma file comes from the player’s fingers, 10% comes from the pieces of wood, metal and catgut...........and the remaining 50% comes from the player’s heart and soul.

Best wishes and good luck

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 06, 2009 @ 12:18 PM
DavePolich
Total Posts:  6820
Joined  07-27-2002
status: Guru

Re: Possible to control bow instrument strokes?

JohnBee, there is only one violin I am aware of in software form that does what you want it to do - that is (or actually, was) the Garritan Stradivari Violin. I have it, along with the Garritan Gorfriller Cello, and they are both wonderful software stringed instruments (they will run standalone or within Native Instruments Kontakt 2.2.4).

Due to a legal snafu, Garritan discontinued it, but apparently it is resurfacing in the upcoming Garritan Orchestral Strings 2, which should be out in May or so. It will be a costly package - probably around $1200-1500, is my guess - but it will include the Stradivari, the Gofriller Cello, and new solo violas and contras as well as some string sections.

The next best software violin is probably the one in East West’s “Gypsy”, which also features other instruments.  There’s been a price reduction this month. Listen to the “Legato Violin” mp3 demo. It’s pretty good:

[url=http://www.eastwestsamples.com/details.php?cd_index=1043]http://www.eastwestsamples.com/details.php?cd_index=1043 [/url]

Lastly, but certainly not leastly, Orchestral Strings for the XS contains some very nice solo violins, with and without vibrato. This library is available at the motif mart right now, in the “Voice Libraries” section. It requires additional RAM (DIMMs) installed in your XS.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 08, 2009 @ 02:40 PM
JohnBee
Avatar
Total Posts:  134
Joined  06-14-2008
status: Pro

Re: Possible to control bow instrument strokes?

Wow thanks for the info.

I know there is little hope of ever replicating the sound in the wma I posted… dammit I can hear the wood tones in the lightest accents of the bow! but still, it would be awesome if I could at least come close on the direction and intensity though..

I will definitely keep and eye out for Garritan’s new release in may. imo. if it lives up to it’s description then it’s well worth the money.

I also looked into the Gypsy product.
But I’m on the fence with it.
The bow section seems nice, but since I also play guitar, the rest of the software would be somewhat of a waist. Funny thing about synthesized instruments… when others hear them, they seem rather impressed, yet for a player(guitar or violin), it’s an aberration at best!

Thanks all for your help with this.

There is one more thing with the XS which bothers me though… I find the vibrato feature either good or bad. Though its always(almost) good when its part of the sound wave, I find myself wishing it could be controlled in some way. Though when it’s mapped to one of the controllers, it’s almost always bad. It sounds either thin, lifeless or just plain bad.

I wish there was a way to control vibrato at the wave level as well. So I guess my next question is, is there a software that can do this?

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 09, 2009 @ 03:39 AM
DavePolich
Total Posts:  6820
Joined  07-27-2002
status: Guru

Re: Possible to control bow instrument strokes?

Not sure what you mean by “thin, lifeless” legato. Legato doesn’t have a timbral character, it’s just a function of connecting monophonic notes without
re-triggering their envelope attacks.

Anyway, there is no software to “improve” the legato on the XS.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 09, 2009 @ 11:21 AM
rangelot
Total Posts:  75
Joined  11-28-2007
status: Experienced

Re: Possible to control bow instrument strokes?

what about Garritan Personal Orchestra (GPO)?  There some decent violin samples with the stroke control, vibrato, trills, etc that may fit the bill.  It’s also reasonably priced < $200.  I own it buit I haven't mastered all of the techniques necessary to produce some realistic voicings.  But if the demos are any indication of what can be done with the library then I think this could be a reasonble and very affordable solution.  Give it a look.

[url=http://www.garritan.com/mp3/index.html]http://www.garritan.com/mp3/index.html [/url]

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 09, 2009 @ 04:55 PM
JohnBee
Avatar
Total Posts:  134
Joined  06-14-2008
status: Pro

Re: Possible to control bow instrument strokes?

Hi Dave,

I don’t know why I wrote legato in my text(medication perhaps), but I meant to say Vibrato....

It is the XS Vibrato that I find thin and lifeless in comparison to a wave embedded one. And so I was wondering if it is even conceivable to overlay a wave vibrato over a standard wave on a single note, to overcome that.

Hope that makes more sense.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 11, 2009 @ 04:04 AM
DavePolich
Total Posts:  6820
Joined  07-27-2002
status: Guru

Re: Possible to control bow instrument strokes?

Vibrato generated by the Motif XS comes from an LFO. Yes, of course that is not the same as vibrato generated by a real human being.
The instruments with sampled vibrato in the waveforms will always sound more realistic.

The best way to imitate vibrato on an instrument sound is to use movements of the pitch bend wheel - that way you act as your own
vibrato “creator” - you are actually “playing” with vibrato technique like a performer on a violin would. Tricky? yes, of course. It takes practice
to play with good vibrato on a real violin.

  [ Ignore ]  


 
     


Previous Topic:

‹‹ Cubase AI 5?
Next Topic:

    What’s New... ››