Can anyone of you use XS as a multi-timbral software instrument or external instrument via USB, in Logic Pro 8?

I have tried all settings in an otherwise perfect Logic set-up, and my conclusion is that it can’t be done.

If you try, you will find that all sound disappears, if you move MIDI- or audio regions around.

So it seems to me that XS is Cubase only. But I would love if you could prove me wrong!

Re: Can anyone use XS in Logic Pro 8?

If anyone is interested, the error can be reproduced like this:

1) Connect XS via USB.
2) Choose SONG mode in XS.
3) Create an external instrument in Logic, choose MOTIF XS, and press ALT/COMMAND/X 15 times so you have 16 XS tracks.
4) Record MIDI regions on 4-5 tracks.
5) Create a software instrument (not sure if that’s necessary) and record some MIDI on it.
6) Create an audio track and record or paste an audio region on it.
7) Drag a MIDI or audio region to the side, or move it to another track.
8) All sound disappears from XS and from Logic.
9) Press COMMAND Z to undo the move—and voilá, sound is back!
10) Press COMMAND/SHIFT/Z, and all is gone again.
11) Remove all XS tracks from your project—and you have sound back on the rest of the tracks.

I don’t know if the fault is Yamaha’s or Apple’s, and I really don’t care. Bottomline is that XS does not work via USB in Logic—contrary to what you could think after reading the XS manual.

Re: Can anyone use XS in Logic Pro 8?

Thanks for posting the steps you’ve taken, vizion.  I’ll try to do this myself in a half-hour or so, and I’ll report back.

In fairness, though, I have to take issue with your last comment.  If it’s a problem with Apple and Logic, then it’s a little unfair to lay blame at the feet of the XS and its user manual.  I see what you’re saying, and I know it’s frustrating (I’ve had my share of frustration with Logic, which is why I switched to Tracktion!), but let’s put blame only where blame is due /forums/images/icons/wink.gif alt=

Re: Can anyone use XS in Logic Pro 8?

OK, I just tried it, and it works perfectly fine for me.  No loss of sound at all.

I’m sure you probably did this already, but on the off chance: did you check your Environment settings?

If so, and if nothing was amiss there, you might want to post your question at the LogicPro.com forum.  There’s no reason why your XS shouldn’t work with Logic over USB like that--I’m guessing it must be some sort of setting amiss in Logic (which is understandable, given that there’s about a million settings in that program which might cause something to malfunction if not set correctly).

Good luck--
Dave

Re: Can anyone use XS in Logic Pro 8?

Hi canadave,
Great, I look forward to your results!

I’ve also contacted the local Yamaha people in my area, and they’re looking into the thing as well, so I hope there’s some solution.

I really love the XS sounds and, yes, I’m frustrated that I have to use East West and Kontakt instead…

Tracktion… now, there’s a new thing to consider… /forums/images/icons/smile.gif alt=

Re: Can anyone use XS in Logic Pro 8?

The problem is this - do not connect the XS via USB. Use MIDI to connect it. You need a MIDI interface connected to your computer for that - something with MIDI INS and MIDI OUTS.

Since the Mac uses Audio/MIDI Setup, it treats a USB device as a MIDI interface. The trouble is, the device cannot be both a MIDI interface AND a controller/receiving tone generator. A MIDI interface is only a “director” receiving and sending MIDI data with connected MIDI hardware.

Get a simple USB MIDI interface, connect that to your Mac. Audio MIDI Setup will see it. Then create a “new device” and name it
Motif XS. Set its properties to send on MIDI channel 1 and receive on all MIDI channels. Draw a connecting cable from MIDI OUTPUT 1 on the USB MIDI interface to MIDI IN on the XS. Draw connecting cable from the MIDI OUT of the XS to the MIDI INPUT 1 on the
USB MIDI device. Save your Audio/MIDI configuration.

Now when you launch Logic, set your XS “local control” to off, and put it in SONG mode. At this point Logic will treat the KEYBOARD of your XS as a separate controller, and the XS tone generator (the sound making part) will be treated as a separate MIDI hardware module that is multi-timbral. You won’t even need to define at as an external hardware instrument. It should show up as a receiving device.

In theory, USB should work. But I’ve always found simple MIDI connection to be trouble-free. The reason people shy away from it is that they don’t want to spend the extra bucks to get a separate hardware MIDI interface.

Re: Can anyone use XS in Logic Pro 8?

Thank you for testing!

Yes, I think that I have double checked everything, so…

Besides, I forgot one step—and I’m afraid it’s crucial—it seems that you have to work at the system for a while before it happens.

I just opened one of the faulty projects—and now it ran without a problem for a while; I could move regions without loss of sound. (Then I got an ‘Error while trying to synchronize Audio and MIDI… Check conflict between Logic Pro and external device’. (XS being the only external device, sigh. /forums/images/icons/frown.gif alt=)

Re: Can anyone use XS in Logic Pro 8?

Thank you VERY much, DavePolich! This is super great news!

I’ll get a MIDI interface right away. However, I’m afraid that I’ve never used one before—could you please recommend one? My audio interface is a Lynx AES16e if that makes any difference; converters are 1073DPD and Lavry DA10.

What about latency—will there be more delay this way? 

Edit: Also, should I uninstall the XS-driver?

Re: Can anyone use XS in Logic Pro 8?

Dave,
Sorry pal, but that is not the case. The Motif is both an interface and a controller. I think I can guess why you say this...it’s because you use DP. DP is the only DAW that requires that you “create” a new device in AMS and then connect it to the Motif “interface” with both in and out cables. All the other DAWs know that the Motif is both and automatically recognizes the Motif as a controller.
It’s automatic in other DAWs including Logic.
Try it with DP if you get a chance. Once the Motif is added as a device and connected to the “Motif” interface, DP sees it as it should.

Logic users should have no problem using the Motif XS with Logic via USB.

Re: Can anyone use XS in Logic Pro 8?

supportguy:
‘Logic users should have no problem using the Motif XS with Logic via USB.’

Couldn’t agree more. But we have.

BTW, I used my XS via firewire on another Mac without these problems. But I don’t want to mess up my present setup by adding the XS as another audio interface. Hence, the need for USB. Or plain MIDI, as DavePolich suggests.

Re: Can anyone use XS in Logic Pro 8?

You will also want to go to the “MotifMart” Files and software section and download (free) the .lso instrument definition for the XS in Logic.

Let us know how that goes.

Re: Can anyone use XS in Logic Pro 8?

You have gone into Utility mode [F5] CONTROL and [SF3] MIDI and selected USB in the “interface feild??? And then stored that setting???

You will then want to go the the Motifmart in the “File and Software” section and download the .LSO instrument definition for the XS in Logic.

Keep us posted.

Re: Can anyone use XS in Logic Pro 8?

supportguy:
‘You have gone into Utility mode [F5] CONTROL and [SF3] MIDI and selected USB in the “interface feild??? And then stored that setting???’

I have lived in Utility mode for the last week and the settings are correct. If they weren’t, I couldn’t record at all, could I? As stated earlier, I have no way of knowing if the fault is Yamaha’s or Apple’s, but please try to think in other terms than user error on this one.

Could you tell me what the .LSO instrument definition is? Can I be sure not to get more problems from this?

I must admit that the MIDI interface idea made sense to me.

Re: Can anyone use XS in Logic Pro 8?

The MIDI setup I recommend ALWAYS works. Yes, I’m a DP user, but happily enough, I don’t have to reconfigure anything when I go to Logic (which I also have).

I’m just giving a solution that I know is reliable - whether something “should” work is another issue.

To paraphrase an old joke -

Patient: “Doc, I can’t get USB to work with my keyboard”.
Doctor: “Then don’t use USB”. 

Vizion - I use MOTU MIDI interfaces, they work very well. The MOTU “Fastlane” is very reliable. It comes with a good manual too. You can buy it at Sweetwater, or thru Guitar Center or Sam Ash.

Re: Can anyone use XS in Logic Pro 8?

Vizion, this is kind of the same issue as your previous post “Bug: XS makes sound disappear in Logic!

While using XS via USB is not my main setup, I have had no issues recording or playback with MIDI in general. From my research in the Logic forums Logicprohelp & disccussions.apple.com , there has been an issue in Logic Pro regarding the moving and / or cutting and pasting of MIDI regions, which intermittently, for some reason, causes a bug (loss of sound) .

I understand that you want a glitchless experience, but as you have found out, a quick cut and repaste restores the sound, or in my case, I repaste to a different instrument and then back to where I want it and it’s good to go… Two seconds max…

This Does Not only happen with external instruments so, it’s not a MIDI interface problem. Your free to buy one, but I have experienced it a time or two working with software instruments only, and with no XS connected- just a midi controller…

Perhaps, deleting Logic’s preferences or an uninstall and reinstall of Logic would help. Anyway, the best cause of action now is for everyone who experiences this to contact Logic Support and / or fill out a bug report on Apple’s website… So that it will be addressed on their end…

Finally, after getting my head around the fact that I couldn’t prevent it from happening, and that nothing I was doing was causing it- the issue has not hindered my productivity at all…

Oh, another thing to watch out for: if you solo an instrument and delete it in it’s solo’ed state. The track is gone from your view but still present in the environment as a solo’ed track and it must be either deleted or un-solo’ed in the environment before sound returns…

p.s.- I’ve also experienced this issue a time or two using a midi interface for my old Alesis QS8…

Re: Can anyone use XS in Logic Pro 8?

Thank you DavePolich, I have ordered an interface and look forward to try it!