I realize you are using the XSpand your world promotion for the XS, but why not release them for the ES as well?

I have an ES and an XS.  MOST of the patches do not utilize the 8 layers of the XS.  They could be loaded into the ES quite easily it would seem.

Also the ES is no longer a competing product as it is no longer for sale.

It would show a great deal of support for your loyal users as well.

Kurzweil released backwards compatible patches for the entire range for the life of the products.  The ES and XS have a very similar architecture, so it should not be difficult.

Re: Yamaha Y not release the extra patches for the ES?

The XSpand Your World promotion is an XS promotion - that’s the
product it is designed for.

Contrary to what you might think, voices and Performances created for the XS are not backwards compatible to the ES. The developers (one of whom is me, DCP) would have to create the product first for the ES, and then port it to the XS, and rewrite it for the XS.

You can easily test this for yourself - save a file on the XS and then try to load it into your ES. It isn’t possible, you will just get an “illegal file!” message.

The XS and ES have different DSP (VCM effects on the XS do not exist on the ES, for starters) and different element architectures, and in many cases they have waveforms with the same names but are completely different (the organ waves in the XS are not the same as the ones in the ES, for example). And the XS has many many waveforms which do not exist in the ES.

Re: Yamaha Y not release the extra patches for the ES?

Hopefully you have “discovered” the additional Motif ES Voice Libraries, Songs, and Patterns on the CD-ROM that came with your Motif ES.

I cannot tell you how many ES owners never loaded up that data. And I’ve spoken to many who threw the data out when they threw away the box…

The ES and XS have a very similar architecture, so it should not be difficult.

I’d have to disagree here. Although the terminology is consistent that is about all. Dave mentioned the new Effects chips (VCM)… but the internal architecture of the Motif XS Voice is very different - it has 8 Elements (as opposed to 4). It has new functions like XA CONTROL - that allow dynamic changes in how the Elements behave within a Voice via the new [Assignable Function] buttons. It has a brand new arpeggiator structure (actually 4 of them simultaneously)… with an entirely new way in which arpeggio data is controlled. A new PERFORMANCE mode functionality. 80% of the wave ROM is new… new LFO functions… etc., etc., etc.

Yes, if you owned a Motif ES, the terminology is similar and the learning curve is much, much shorter, but to say they are same architecturally is only looking at the outside of the building (yes, they are both skyscrapers with a steel frame...) but once you on the inside one is classic art deco, while the other is ultra modern.
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Re: Yamaha Y not release the extra patches for the ES?

Interesting thread. I was thinking about the XS upgrade and am curious if it was put out in response to the Korg M3 upgrade or was it put out just to add value to the XS line? My local Yamaha dealer said the XS is almost like getting two ES’s in one box, that’s how much more massive the ROM is in the XS compared to the ES. I have an ES8 and have been really satisfied with it the last four years. Still, I have taken notice to the new piano sound with half damper on the XS, which my ES8 doesn’t have, and I like the new string sounds on the XS too. The User Interface is a big improvement over the ES, although you can get a lot out of the ES if you work with it. I don’t consider myself an expert with it compared to some players here, but it does what i want it to do and sounds great. Its tough to look at anything other than Yamaha Motif if you want a self contained workstation.

I hope to spend some time with the expanded XS in the near future. Maybe an XS7 this time around, easier to carry!

Mike T.

Re: Yamaha Y not release the extra patches for the ES?

ny2g i feel you on everything. but hopefully the xs will def be the last of the “workstation rip-offs” they are not innovative, compared to a computer and software....

i have come to expect no support from yamaha. i mean i can’t even find the over priced obsolete mlan upgrade 4 the es or the ueib upgrade. the plg technology is under used…

maybe now with the xs they will support it more, but heck i found out the xs doesn’t even have step recording.

Re: Yamaha Y not release the extra patches for the ES?

lokness42 wrote “i have come to expect no support from yamaha.”

I don’t post very often here, but I do frequently read the forums.  I want to say that over the last several years I have gained loads and loads of information on how to use my keyboard effectively from this website (Motifator.com), which Yamaha supports.  This website has been an outstanding customer service product for me. 

You also mentioned not being able to get an overpriced, new mLan. You might find one cheaper on eBay.  I got one new in the box a couple of years ago off of eBay for about half the cost of a new one.

Anyway, I wanted to jump in mainly because this actively monitored Yamaha forum is one of my top reasons for getting a Yamaha keyboard (other than just making great keyboards) and I hate to see Yamaha ever abandon such a good idea.

Re: Yamaha Y not release the extra patches for the ES?

mcmusic, notice you said a couple years ago. i’ve searched ebay only seen one, like i said they are not customer friendly no matter what you think. the new mlan isn’t backwards compatible…

i’v been with yamaha since my psr 530. bought a rm1x, then they came out with the rs 7000, then the motif, then the es, and now the xs.

why have they still not fixed, when recording in pattern mode, say i press a key on the 4th measure and hold it for say 6 beats, stop recording playback, and it cut’s the note on the 4th beat?