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Viewing topic "Confused about mLAN audio and the ES."

     
Posted on: January 20, 2009 @ 11:38 PM
scottrod
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I’m confused on how to set up my rig, now that I have an mLAN device.

I have a Motif ES, and now have an mLAN16e card.

The computer is running XP with Cubase AI4. It has a Realtek audio chip with ins and outs on the motherboard.

I use a Yamaha MG166CX-USB with USB audio at the moment. By the specs, the Realtek chip is superior to the Yamaha audio chip.

I have installed the mLAN drivers and all is well; have been using the midi portion with no problems. I’m confused about the audio though, and what the mLAN brings to the table, if anything.

I have been running the ES out through the mains and into the mixer, and then using the USB audio in the mixer to go into Cubase, then back out the same USB port to the mixer, and out to the powered speakers.

I envision being able to use the mLAN audio with the ES to run separate audio channels in Cubase using the mLAN path and mix down the ES there.

I still need to get the signals from the USB mixer into Cubase though, as I have other hardware synths running midi I need to get into the mix.

I’m not sure how to combine the two audio paths into Cubase, and then how to get it all out to the speakers. I’m confused as to what to select in Cubase, or as my audio devices in the Control Panel > Audio setup so everything will work together in the most effective manner.

Does anyone have a suggestions on the best way to plumb this system?

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Posted on: January 21, 2009 @ 01:53 AM
nbadesign
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Re: Confused about mLAN audio and the ES.

mLAN16e is audio/MIDI interface. So, you don’t need any other audio interface in Cubase except mLAN. You should install the latest driver from [url=http://www.mlancentral.com/]http://www.mlancentral.com/. [/url]
Also, at [url=http://www.motifator.com/motifes/motifes-btm.php]http://www.motifator.com/motifes/motifes-btm.php [/url]
there are several Power User documents written by Phil Clendeninn where you could find all you need (especially No. 10: http://www.01xray.com/01xpert/setups/mLAN16E_ES.pdf).

Alex

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Posted on: January 21, 2009 @ 02:11 AM
TheDukester
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Re: Confused about mLAN audio and the ES.

....also,mLan and USB are two different means of transfering data. USB is a communication format while mLan also transfers Audio. I didn’t see a mention of Firewire to/in your computer nor the Graphic Patchbay necessary to have properly aligned such that the “information” can flow from your ES to the computer. Essentially, if properly connected,you “could” bypass the Mixer altogether and record directly into C-Base via mLan.

Examine the material recommended and post back with any more questions and maybe a little clearer discription of your objectives.

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Posted on: January 21, 2009 @ 02:13 AM
scottrod
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Re: Confused about mLAN audio and the ES.

How do I get the mLAN audio out to the speakers? 

If the mLAN16e in the ES is the audio D/A processor, do I simply plug the output of the ES directly into my powered speakers for output of the Cubase mixdown?

Also, since my mixer is USB, how can I incorporate it into Cubase audio inputs to allow me to mix in my other hardware synths that aren’t on the mLAN bus?

TIA -

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Posted on: January 21, 2009 @ 03:43 AM
TheDukester
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status: Guru

Re: Confused about mLAN audio and the ES.

“How do I get the mLAN audio out to the speakers?”

You actually,don’t. As I stated previously, you made no mention of a Firewire access in your Computer.

Let’s bypass the Mixer for a moment. As I stated previously, you “could” go directly into your computer via mLan “From” your ES “IF” you have a Firewire type Input in your computer.

“I” once had my ES go directly into my computer via mLan with an Adaptec Firewire unit installed in my computer. My “monitoring” of the Audio came out of the computer audio system. This has to be set up in the computer to behave that way. I now have a mixer in between and the monitoring “can” come from the Mixer output. I too have the Realtek as an option. This would be where you could get the Audio monitoring from IF you had the Firewire interfacing.

Now,returning to the Mixer, I’m not familiar with that product but it would have to give you mLan communication “TO” the software as the “in between” from the ES to the computer.

“Also, since my mixer is USB, how can I incorporate it into Cubase audio inputs to allow me to mix in my other hardware synths that aren’t on the mLAN bus?”

“My” answer would be, you can’t. They are two different means of transfer of information. USB is a form of MIDI and MIDI doesn’t transfer “Audio”. It transfers “information”.

What I would suggest first,read the information on the guides suggested. For your present practical purposes, you need a Firewire of some sort to get the mLan from the ES to the computer. Then you can transfer the Audio from the ES to the software. You “can” use your Mixer USB for operational purposes in sending messages to the software and control of functions during the process,but that’s something else all together.
Hope this helps some.....

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Posted on: January 21, 2009 @ 05:09 AM
scottrod
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Re: Confused about mLAN audio and the ES.

Dukester:

Thanks for helping me out! 

Sorry, didn’t clarify that I do have the Firewire to the computer, and it is operational. It’s running the MIDI side of the mLAN in Cubase just fine, and I see all the audio paths available as well.

As for the mixer, the USB connection on the unit does pass the digital audio signal, and an onboard D/A converter changes it into the analog out to the powered speakers. I have been using it as my audio intercafe in Cubase using the Yamaha USB Audio drivers.

Will dig into it more this evening and see what I can do with it. If Cubase only allows audio input from one source, (either mLAN or the Yamaha USB Audio link, but not both) I think I’m hosed for running it the way I imagined.

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Posted on: January 21, 2009 @ 06:19 AM
TheDukester
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status: Guru

Re: Confused about mLAN audio and the ES.

I see that you are running C-Base Al4. That is an “entry level” program that may not be able to “do” what you are trying to do. You may not be “hosed” for what you want to do,just what you are trying to do it “in”. Check the manual for the program.
Let us know what you work out.
CHECK THIS OUT Look into the Quick Set up for Al4. Though it is written for the XS, it may offer some suggestions that “can” be employed under your existing plan.
Just a thought…

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Posted on: January 21, 2009 @ 08:52 AM
Bad_Mister
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Re: Confused about mLAN audio and the ES.

Both the Motif ES w/mLAN16E and the MG166-CX are audio interfaces for getting audio to your computer. However, they cannot be used simultaneously as audio interfaces… this will not stop you from using them both however…

The Motif ES w/mLAN16E will be a much more flexible item to use as your principal audio interface device, and here’s why: In creating music using your gear, the mLAN16E gives you the ability to address the computer with 16 audio buses. You can route any PART of your MIXING setup to individual audio tracks in your DAW (Cubase) and that includes the AD INPUT Part, as well.

Presumably you are using the Motif ES as one of the principal devices to create your music tracks. So connecting and using it as your MIDI and audio interface just makes sense. You would connect your powered monitors to the L&R outputs of the Motif ES. It (the Motif ES w/mLAN16E) is actually going to be your sound card… connect the speakers to the device acting as your soundcard.

The MG166CX is a mixer that, when used as an audio interface, allows you to send a stereo audio signal to your computer at best… All channels connected to the MG166 are sent to the computer via a stereo USB-Audio bus.

Since stereo is the maximum send from the MG166CX, you can still utilize it (but simply use its analog outputs)… By that I mean you can connect your other audio sources (guitars, microphones, other modules, etc) to it and then connect the Stereo Out from the MG to the A/D INPUT on your Motif ES.

The A/D INPUT of the ES can be routed to Cubase like any internal Motif ES PART. The A/D INPUT can be set to OUTPUT on any of the 16 mLAN outputs so you can record any signal routed to the MG to Cubase via the Motif ES w/mLAN16E (remember it is your audio interface - and audio interface being a device that can take incoming signal and route it to your computer, and take returning signal and route it to your sound system).

In [MIXING]
Press [EDIT]
Press [COMMON] a/k/a the DrumKits/Favorites button
Press [F5] AUDIO IN
Here you can select AD in the upper left corner… this is your AD INPUT parameters. Set the MONO/STEREO parameter to match the type of input (stereo) coming from your MG166CX.
Set the OUTPUT SELECT to the L&R or odd/even assignable outputs… as1&2 = mLAN ASIO OUT 1&2… as3&4 = mLAN ASIO OUT 3&4… and so on.

Depending on how you work and what you need to record simultaneously, connecting the L&R Output of the MG to the AD INPUTS of the ES can allow you to create music tracks with great flexibility.

You are correct, you can only have one source for audio, either mLAN or USB-AUDIO, but not both. This is how it is… but that should not stop you from creating great recordings!


Alternatively, you could setup where the Motif ES is connected via analog 1/4” to the MG and the MG is your audio interface… (not using the mLAN16E at all) but the reason I think this is less flexible is because it only allows you to record a stereo bus to Cubase… Which may, in fact be fine...if that is all you need to do.

It is just that if you are multi-tracking, the first method I described will let you build tracks with the option of isolating Parts to separate tracks from the ES - which if it is your ‘main’ source for your basic tracks, seems to be the most logical way to work.

Hope that helps.
Let us know if you need more information.

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Posted on: January 22, 2009 @ 02:06 AM
scottrod
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Re: Confused about mLAN audio and the ES.

Bad_Mister:

Once again, thank you for the comprehensive reply.  I understand the setup as described and plan on implementing it per your suggestion. Youíre right, the ES is the centerpiece of music making rig. The ES combined with a JV-1080 module operating in multi-timbral mode are the mainstays of my fledgling work. The ES does have a big learning curve, but Iím getting around in it well now and making it do what I want.

I have a question which is purely academic, certainly not necessary for operation, but I like to know exactly whatís going on, so here goesÖ

In normal operation without the mLAN card installed, digital information from the ESís onboard sounds are processed, then D/A converted with the ESís D/A converter and sent out the L&R outputs. It appears to be a 24-bit converter like the mLAN.

When using the mLAN card, does the converter in the mLAN actually take the place of the ESís onboard converter, or does the mLAN take an already ES-converted analog signal, convert it back into the digital domain, and then send it out digitally onto the mLAN bus to the audio input of Cubase? 

Likewise, does the signal coming into the A/D input on the ES bypass the ESís sampling converter and go directly to the mLAN converter, or does the ES perform an A/D operation first before it gets fed to the mLAN unit?  Once the final analog audio signal is going out of the L&R outputs of the ES, is that signal converted to the analog domain by the ESís converter, or the mLANís converter?

To put another (much simpler way), when the mLAN is installed, does it take over ALL of the A/D and D/A conversions of the ES, or does the ESís onboard converters still play a part in converting digital and analog signals in the routing path?

Finally, is the single audio interface a limitation of the XP operating system, or are there versions of Cubase that permit more than one audio interface source under XP?

Thanks again,

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Posted on: January 22, 2009 @ 03:41 AM
TheDukester
Total Posts:  3345
Joined  01-18-2003
status: Guru

Re: Confused about mLAN audio and the ES.

“You are correct, you can only have one source for audio, either mLAN or USB-AUDIO, but not both. This is how it is… but that should not stop you from creating great recordings!”

Happy New Year,"Bad 1”.
I see that scottrod has some other questions pertaining to his issue that seem to be a little involved,but as one who tries to help others, I don’t want to pass on misinformation.

“I” was under the impression that USB behaved like MIDI and just transfered “information”. I was unaware that USB could also transfer Audio. Is this a formate that is within the design of the Mixing unit that Scott is using? That it is capable of transfering Audio via USB or was I under a misconception of the nature of USB?
(If and when you have the time to explain.)
TBxR...STILL /forums/images/icons/wink.gif alt=

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Posted on: January 22, 2009 @ 03:53 AM
scottrod
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Re: Confused about mLAN audio and the ES.

Dukester:

The USB audio connection is strictly between the mixer and the computer.  There is an audio driver, Yamaha USB Audio, that allows this to occur. In Cubase, I had the USB connection and the audio codec in the mixer selected as my audio device.

The ES was also running a USB line, but it is strictly carrying midi information, no audio.  The ES L&R audio outs were plugged into a stereo channel on the mixer, so the audio from the ES to the computer (Cubase) had to go through the mixer’s A/D conversion first, then down the mixer’s USB line.

ALL my audio was on one stereo channel with the USB mixer connection, that’s why I went with the mLAN, to break it up. It could work ok the way it was, but it would mean a lot more recording time.

Thanks for the feedback and for taking the time to increase your own knowledge base; I refer to your posts often for advice, so I wouldn’t want to see you misinformed!

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Posted on: January 22, 2009 @ 10:58 AM
TheDukester
Total Posts:  3345
Joined  01-18-2003
status: Guru

Re: Confused about mLAN audio and the ES.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Scott.
Brad Webber told me, what seems like an eternity ago, when thanking him for assisting me on an issue, told me that the best way to “thank” him would be to do my best to try and help others here as my knowledge increases. I probably could offer more assistance than I do,but sometimes I “second guess” what I know or am reluctant to give information that may not all together accurate.

These processes can be frustrating enough without seeking help and getting the wrong info. I don’t want to be guilty of that so I really appreciate you bringing my up to speed on the process that you are using. I will make note of it and check a little more into that board for the options it offers should someone else pose a similar issue (although I know “you” will be right there to bail them out /forums/images/icons/wink.gif alt=).

Like B-Webb...that’s the “thanks” I want to get. It’s the what makes this site work.

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