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Viewing topic "Drum wav samples as User Arps"

     
Posted on: January 03, 2009 @ 11:56 AM
gregory
Total Posts:  0
Joined  11-22-2004
status: Newcomer

I have an ES 8 . . .
I feel I’ve done the research; ES manual, Behind the Manuals, forum posts, and hours of practicing on the ES . . .
and I need an expert statement about converting “drum wav samples” (in song or pattern mode) to a user arpeggio.

I have been using the drum wav samples (in pattern mode) from the Yamaha Sound Library I received when I purchased the ES.  The conversion . . . midi note to drive sample and Slice was very well explained in the Video manuals I received free at a MOTIF ES Clinic in my area. (Also drum midi samples from the web and by creating them on the keyboard)

Through my efforts, it appears that you can only make User Arp from midi’s. ( you know, the “box” not the “squiggly” under the Track No.)

I’m aware of using a “drum wav sample” in say, pattern mode, and it works well and very easy to do. (I can copy to any pattern I want or use etc.).

But just for the knowledge . . .
is my assumption correct:  You can not create a “USER Arpeggio” from a drum “.wav” sample.

Currently, I’ve only been able to use drum MIDI samples to create drum User Arps by either; creating one by banging-it-out myself from the keyboard, or purchased drum midi’s from the Motif Mart (Twiddly Bits), or from the Web (drum midi web searches and downloads).

An “Expert” comment would be sincerely appreciated . . .
and
Thank you all, for your always great help on these forums.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: January 03, 2009 @ 05:52 PM
Bad_Mister
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Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Legend

Re: Drum wav samples as User Arps

Arpeggios are MIDI data. They are MIDI notes. MIDI notes make no sound of their own… they must be assigned to trigger audio. 

They trigger audio. Audio in this case (Motif ES) can be waves. These waves can be placed in the Motif ES by Yamaha at the factory in Hamamatsu, or they can be sample waves placed in the ES by you on your DIMMs.

You can create an arpeggio from MIDI notes. It is an arrangement of notes in a pattern. What they trigger is up to you… they can trigger a preset Voice (one placed in the unit by Yamaha) or they can trigger a user Voice (one placed in the unit by you).

When you SLICE an audio wave you wind up with a chromatic arrangement of audio segments. You are creating series of audio segments each mapped to a chromatically higher note. Say it is a drum phrase, you might have a kick drum on C3, a hihat on C#3, a snare on D3 and so on…

If you look at the EVENT LIST you will see that your sliced audio will always look something like C3 - C#3 - D3 - D#3 - E3 - F3 - F#3 - G3 - G#3 - A3 - A#3 and so on…

Not sure why or what you mean about creating an arpeggio from a sliced audio waveform… it would only make sense when you played it back to a Voice that had audio segments mapped chromatically to the keyboard.

If you were to playback a sliced audio wave to a piano Voice, for example, it would simply play a chromatic scale… It is not the audio that becomes the arpeggio - it is the MIDI notes (C3 - C#3 - D3 - and so on). MIDI notes always trigger audio waves.

Hope that helps.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: January 05, 2009 @ 01:02 AM
gregory
Total Posts:  0
Joined  11-22-2004
status: Newcomer

Re: Drum wav samples as User Arps

Thank you for such a prompt reply . . .
My understanding of the MIDI terms is half-the-battle, but well worth the effort.
You have confirmed what I feel I understand about MIDI data, slices of audio segments, MIDI notes triggering audio waves, etc.

however,
in your second to the last line about “what I mean about creating an arpeggio from a sliced audio waveform” . . .

what I meant refered to creating a “USER ARP” from one of the MOTIF CD Sound Library’s drum loops (wav file), and as you mentioned, when I SLICE that audio wave, I did wind up with a chromatic arrangement of audio segments.  Pressing the sequencer ON button, played the drum pattern (or loop), perfectly.

My intended question involves the next step in the process of being able to “put track to Arp” [Song]-[Job]-[F5] TRACK “Fixed”. . . . and then be able to retrieve or select it from the [F6] ARP display screen (Bank, Ctgr, Type, etc.) to use it in a pattern, or performance, or etc.

Since the original drum loop (wav file) is audio, and then chromatically arrangement in audio segments,
in addition to copying it to other patterns, etc.,
. . . can it be stored as a “USER ARP” which can be retreived or selected in the [F6] ARP display screen.

I hope I’m explaining my question correctly.

Example: While I’m in pattern mode, where the SLICED audio track works perfectly, I then try to “put track to Arp”, and it didn’t create a USER ARP.
In another instance using a midi file (.mid) drum loop (from Twiddly Bits), I was able to “put track to Arp” and retreive or select it via the [F6] ARP display screen.
Also worked creating a drum arp by banging-it-out from the keyboard.

Might I be doing something wrong while using the drum loop (.wav file) to create a drum “USER ARP”?  It worked using the .mid files and the keyboard-created arp very consistantly.

Thanks again for your expert assistance,
Greg

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: January 05, 2009 @ 07:42 AM
Bad_Mister
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Joined  07-30-2002
status: Legend

Re: Drum wav samples as User Arps

If you would like to make the sequence of MIDI notes created by the SLICE function into an arpeggio, you simply use the PUT TRACK TO ARP job to do so.

It will only make sense to do so using the FIXED NOTE Convert Type and, as I mentioned, when it is assigned back to the original Waveform.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: January 05, 2009 @ 01:16 PM
gregory
Total Posts:  0
Joined  11-22-2004
status: Newcomer

Re: Drum wav samples as User Arps

After reading your reply this morning,
I attempted, again, to PUT TRACK TO ARP with FIXED NOTE Convert Type, as you mentioned, as I’ve always done in past attempts. ( Key C3 )

Darn it, it’s doing the same thing.  Let me explain.

I went to PERFORM mode, Initialize it, so all tracks are AP (Piano).  Them press F6 (ARP), and yes, the newly created arp is there.  I then press PLAY [F1], (with the Arpeggio ON/OFF button = ON), and finally hit a key to start the Arpeggio. 

The sounds I get are the drum sounds (Rock1 drum kit) starting at key C3, then C#3, D3-D#3-E3-E#3 and so on. . .
It loops, playing in the above order C3-C#3 etc. . .
The drum sounds are in the order of the Rock1 drum kit from C3 on . . . cow bell, whistle, bell, etc . . . that sort of stuff; not the Bass, snare, and high hat sounds, like in the original .wav drum loop.

Again, this user arp was originally created from the MOTIF Sound Library “.wav drum loops”.

To confirm the operation of my ES8, I went to PERFORM mode, and created a simple drum arp, (pounding it out on the keyboard) a simple bass(TRK 1), snare(TRK 2), high Hat(TRK 3) with a 4/4 beat for one measure.  I put the three tracks, TRACK TO ARP, using fixed note conversion type for each track, and named it.

Then went back to PERFORM mode, (a new Initialize one), all tracks are AP (Piano), pressed F6 (ARP) found this newly keyboard-created drum arp, pressed PLAY [F1], pressed Arpeggio button on, hit a key . . .
. . .  and presto! it played the drum arp just like I just created it from the keyboard.

Any suggestions on why it does not work like I want it to when I load a “.wav drum loop sample”, with note, with SLICE, with track-to-arp (Fixed).
It just plays back the drum sounds of the selected Drum Kit (Rock1) starting with C3, then C#3 and so on.

Hope this explains my question, a little better?
Greg

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: January 05, 2009 @ 03:38 PM
Bad_Mister
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Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Legend

Re: Drum wav samples as User Arps

I’ll repeat:
It will only make sense to do so using the FIXED NOTE Convert Type and, as I mentioned, when it is assigned back to the original Waveform.

The Rock1 Kit is not the original waveform (not even close)…
What you will have to do is create a VOICE using the sliced Waveform. Here’s how:

Press [INTEGRATED SAMPLING] > [EDIT]
You will arrive on the SAMPLE SELECT screen.
What you want to do is find the sliced WAVEFORM… it will be the one with the Kick on C3, the Hihat on C#3, etc., etc.

Now once you find the WAVEFORM you will need to build a VOICE from that waveform.
Go to [VOICE] mode
Press [JOB]
Press [F1] INIT
Press [ENTER] , [YES] to execute

This will create an INIT VOICE (with a single piano element)
Press [EDIT]
Press Track Select [1] to view Element parameters
At [F1] OSC
[SF1] WAVE
Set the Wave to USER and select your sliced waveform number here.

You have now created a Voice from your sliced data.
Press [STORE] and store this voice to a USER bank location.

Now you can use this Voice in your PERFORMANCE and the Arpeggio will make sense. No other Voice will make sense… every other Voice will just play chromatically… your Voice has a chromatic mapping of sounds that make sense for the note data.

hope that makes sense.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: January 05, 2009 @ 08:44 PM
gregory
Total Posts:  0
Joined  11-22-2004
status: Newcomer

Re: Drum wav samples as User Arps

Now I get it!

There is obviously more than one way of achieving the same goal.  Thank you for taking the time to reply and explain another way of making arpeggios on the MOTIF ES. (specifically in VOICE Mode).

My original intended question has been answered completely.  Thanks.  (Although your solution is not what I wanted it to be, I did learned more than I expected, an another way of making user arps)

Since I’m also a drummer . . . pounding-out a cool original drum loop on the keyboard is very easy, especially being able to put Toms, Snare, Cymbals, etc. on seperate Tracks, and with the ability of adding Effects, etc, etc.

It’s interesting no one else responded to this topic.

Thanks again for your expert and helpful advice.
Greg

  [ Ignore ]  


 
     


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