1.  In reading the specs sheet on motifator.com and on yamahasynth.com, it says there are a total of 256 user voices.  On yamahasynth.com, there is some more specificity, saying that there are “128 x 2 (Bank 1: Original, Bank 2: Picked up from Preset).” What does that mean?  Does it mean that the first User bank of 128 is for voices that come from sampled voice libraries (i.e., that use new samples) that do not use Motif ES’s sampled wave ROM; and the second User bank of 128 is for voices that use Motif ES’s sampled wave ROM in ES’s Preset and factory-provided User voices (example: tweaking/editing an existing Motif ES preset voice to change EQ, effects, etc. and then saving it as a User voice)?

2.  In reading on yamahasynth.com the Features description on the Motif ES, it says (p. 3) that “the ES comes with a bundled CD-ROM with over 170 MB of sample voices including the S90 three layer piano . . . “ Does this mean that the Motif ES will NOT have as an internal preset voice the S90’s current three layer piano, and that we’ll have to load it as a User voice (as part of the first User bank that uses new sample??—see my question 1 above).  If that’s true, just curious, why couldn’t the ES include this three layer piano as a preset voice?

3.  With the Motif “Classic” (as we are now seeming to call it), there has been SO much discussion, so many threads and input by so many of us on this Forum about what is the best accoustic piano voice available for Motif use.  Some have argued it’s the PowerGrand (Preset), some the NaturalGrand (GM); some have argued it’s one of these or another Motif preset accoustic piano voice that has been tweaked/edited with certain parameters; a small minority have argued it’s a voice, standard or tweaked/edited, from the PLG-150 card.  Some have argued it’s a new sample voice (such as Dave Polich/DCP’s big Virtual Grand VR60 or VR 21 samples; or the Studio 88 sample; or some other library’s sample).  When the S90 came out with it’s “flagship” accoustic piano voice, the “3-Layer Piano” (obviously meant to be its flagship accoustic piano voice if for no other reason than it’s the FIRST voice in the S90’s accoustic piano category and it does sound pretty friggin’ good), there were oohs and aahs about that voice, and I, like many, went to our nearest Guitar Center, demo-ed the S90, and lamented that we did not have it for our Motif Classic.
With that long prelude:  Is there a new “flagship” accoustic piano voice for the Motif ES?  If so, can you give us some details about it?  If there is no new “flagship"/new “pride and joy of Yamaha” accoustic piano voice, then are we to presume that the Three Layer Piano that came out with the S90 is, in fact, the “pride and joy of Yamaha” accoustic piano voice . . . for now?

4.  An easy two-part question about Motif ES looks/appearance:
a. In looking at, and enlarging the photo of the Mo ES, there are four new buttons above the regular top Bank row of 8 buttons now found on the Motif “Classic.” These four buttons are, I assume, related to the expanded Preset and User voice banks.  What are those four buttons exactly?  (The Owners Manual doesn’t appear to say based on my preliminary read.) Are they simply something like “Preset Superset 1, Preset Superset 2, User Superset 1 and User Superset 2” to then allow for accessing the Preset 1, 2 and 3, and User A-H, 1-16 voices?
b.  What specific color/s will the Motif ES be (I’m a visual person)?

5.  When will Yamaha allow us to see the Data List for the Motif ES, so that we can see all the Preset voices, CD-ROM bundled voices, and preset arpeggios?  In the meantime, can you give us a hint or let us know how many preset voices will be in each category (example: with twice as many preset voices, are we going to have, say, a lot more accoustic instrument voices or more synth voices, to fill these up?  where is the increase coming? spread across all voice types—AP, KB, OR, GT, LD, etc., with what emphases)

Thanks, thanks, thanks for what I’m sure will be an answer to these questions before I check in again tomorrow.  Best wishes to all!

Signed, An Anxious Current-Motif-Owner-Upgrading-to-ES-Owner-To-Be

Re: More questions for Yamaha regarding the ES

1: “picked up from Preset” means that the Voices in USER 2 appear elsewhere in the machine. This is done because so many newbies are afraid to overwrite anything that comes from the factory. So think of the USER 2 bank as a “best of” - each Voice in USER 2 will be found either in the six Preset banks or in User 1. This way you can write into this bank without feeling like you are writing over an important Voice. Also an important addition to the ES is the concept of Mix Voice: Each Voice when placed in a PART of a MIX can be edited fully and stored to a MIX VOICE bank -local to that Song or Pattern. So that rather than just the PART OFFSET parameter method of the original Motif - you can fully edit and store in the SONG/PATTERN each Voice you use. Cool!

2. The sample data on the CD includes loops and sound effect data for Slicing and Real Time Loop Remixing. The piano in the Motif ES is made from the data of the P250/PF500 main piano and is a different Triple strike from the one in the S90. You get the S90 triple strike (as well) but you get it on CDROM. Best of both worlds… you get both. You can load it to any USER bank location - no restriction.

3. As you so eloquently state...different pianos for different people. Yamaha is a piano maker (for more than 100 years) we understand that one model will not suit everybody. And in electronic simulations of the piano this is even more true...The main piano in the S90 was a triple strike version of the piano in the S80 (that $250,000 hand-crafted Yamaha S700) but it was not the only one. The main piano in the P250/PF500 is a different triple strike and a different piano (Yamaha US can give more details on the sampling session) - a concert CF-III, I believe. It has a different character from the one in the Motif, and a different character from the S90/S80 data. Some will love it - some will not, everyone will have an opinion. Some will complain - others will play it and enjoy it - that is a guarantee. But as was the germ idea when we sat down to discuss the S80 - our competitors have room for only 1 piano (memory hog that it is) and it is arguably the most important sound for the most people. Why settle on just 1. This is why so much of the wave ROM is dedicated to pianos in the S80, S90, Motif. WIth the ES you will have the new Motif ES piano plus the S90 on CD. The S80 had 44MB wave ROM (unprecedented at the time of its release), The Motif had 84MB, the S90 had 110MB, the new ES has 175MB of wave ROM - beyond the specs, it just simply sounds incredible (you’ll see).

4. The four buttons on the top row are PRE1, PRE2, PRE3, PRE4 (like to say they were something special but that is where they are) and you are right it was to accommodate the additional bank buttons ( PRE4, PRE5, PRE6, USER2). As to the color of the ES. You would say it is Silver Gray or Gray Silver, but that sounds like the original Motif...it is a subtle difference - I’d say more gray in the silver.

5. The final Voice lists are being compiled and I’m sure when the DATA LIST booklet is done it will be posted. We like to say that we added Voices in the categories everyone wanted more Voices. I have not counted them but we expect the list shortly. Hang on.

Replies to Bad Mister

First, thanks for working on July 4th weekend.  So that’s how you “declare your independence.”

Second, I purchased the MO DVDs Vols. 2 and 3, and now can put a face/voice with your e-mails.  ("Were those reading glasses just to make you appear EVEN SMARTER than you are?")

Third, I’m still a bit confused on the User 1 and User 2 banks.  I guess my question is:  Are we limited as to what kinds of user voices we may save in either one of these banks (that is, one bank of user voices based on existing Mo wave ROM and the other based on external/new samples), or, were you simply saying that when the ES ships, the factory settings have the User 2 bank filled with 128 voices that come from the presets (that is, and this is NO knock on Yamaha particularly when we’re getting double the number of preset voices, but unlike on the current Mo where the factory ships the Mo with the Preset voices and 128 entirely new User voices which User voices can be edited OR deleted entirely, the new ES will ship with double the number of preset voices, but really only 128 other (new) User voices—which we can edit or delete, because the other 128 User voices are filled by copies of Preset and User 1 voices—which we can edit and delete, correct?) but that we can delete/substitute them with User voices that are based on either existing Mo wave ROM or external/new samples?

Fourth, you also proactively addressed my next “comment” to you which was that:  Effectively, with the “MIX VOICE” concept, coupled with the fact that we now have 8 “tracks” in Song mode that can have insert effects, for someone like me, who does a lot of live play you have now done two things that were critical for me.  First, you’ve allowed me to have up to 8 tracks in song mode that I can “on the fly” change to and from and not “lose” (or better stated, maintain the ability to have) insert effects.  (The only other way right now would be to have a Sysex message changing the part with the insert effects at a certain song measure, as I change from playing voice 1 to voice 2; or, alternatively, have a program change at a certain song measure to change the voice on track 1, which part has the insert effects assigned to it, to another voice, thus maintaining the insert effects on that track.  Even in this manner, however, I wouldn’t be able to actually change the insert effect parameters themselves absent some other commands (Sysex?), which are currently beyond my present understanding/comprehension.) Second, you’ve freed up a lot of my User voice “space” that I otherwise now fill up on the Mo “Classic” with preset voices I’ve tweaked to reduce reverb (for live use) and other EQ changes and then saved as user voices for Song Mode use only.
Currently, this is how it works for me:  If my band is playing a song and I have my set list of sequenced songs loaded (say 16 of them), in Song mode with the current Mo Classic I might have two tracks/parts/channels that I am changing between in a live setting (say, track 1 is an AP voice based on the NaturalGrand preset GM voice that I have tweaked certain parameters to and have made it a customized/edited User voice I called “Live Grand,” with the [currently limited by the Mo Classic to one part available] insert effects assigned to it; and track 2 is an OR voice that doesn’t (with the Mo Classic limitation of one part insert effect) have any insert effects. Alternatively, I might have a song with PF copy where, effectively, on parts 1 and 2 (all on channel 1, though) I have a split or layered keyboard “performance.” Of course, currently, only one of these parts can have insert effects.
With the Mo ES, with the new Mix Voice concept, the beauty is that I won’t HAVE to create a User voice that is based on a preset in order to have that exact User voice with all its tweakings/effects for this particular song.  Now, I can take up one of those 256!! User voice “spaces” with another voice I import from sample libraries or otherwise (understanding what you said about the second bank of User voices that are “picked up from Preset [and existing User] voices"), and simply take, say, the Natural Grand preset voice, and use Mix Voice in Song mode to, effectively, “create” a User voice custom-made for THAT PARTICULAR SONG based on, say, the NaturalGrand preset voice, and...I can do that for this song X, or song Y, song Z, or whatever song....  For example, maybe I have the NaturalGrand preset voice tweaked for Song X that needs certain user voice edits/changes that are different from the voice edits/changes I need to made to the NaturalGrand preset voice for Song Y.  Before (now), I would need to create two user voices—if the edits were more than simply reverb and chorus [which I can now do in Song/Mix mode]—one User voice for Song X, one User voice for Song Y.  Now (soon...in October), I can simply use my MO ES NaturalGrand (or whatever other preset or user) voice, NOT have to create two user voices, and simply “edit” these voices with Mix Voice in Song mode, save these mix voices just for the particular song/s, thus “freeing up” more User voice “space” generally in regular ol’ Voice Mode (which benefits my Performances as well, as Performance Mode is based on voices found in Voice Mode).  That’s just GREAT.

Lastly. . . . Knowing all this, I have to tell you...without trying to sound like a major cheerleader but I certain am....This new ES is EVERYTHING that I, personally, could ask for.  No more dropping out of notes on intricately polyphonous songs.  Plenty of sample/record time.  Voices I already love.  New voices I know I’ll love.  Mega voices.  Old/new voices I’ll be editing.  Twice the note capacity in sequencing mode (so that I can load up TWICE the number of songs at a time that I now can load when I gig).  3-band EQ for each voice in song/pattern mixing.  A ribbon controller (like the Kurz, which I always liked about that product).  A heckuva lot more preset arps (which I never have fully utlized to begin with).  I have never been sophisticated enough to fully utilize all the envelope controls, but the additional precision with the ES seems wonderful as well.

You guys REALLY listened to comments and constructive/destructive critiques.
And, as for the still on-going threads about how supposedly user-less friendly the sequencing and sampling systems are on the Mo compared with the Korg, I find it fine as is.  Honestly.  When last year I was choosing which workstation to purchase, I spent probably 10-15 hours last summer at two different Guitar Centers (not wanting to peeve-off salesmen at any one store location for too-too-long), with the Korg Triton Studio and Mo side-by-side, literally; the Yamaha “system” actually worked better for me than all the Korg touch-screen stuff and supposedly more user-friendly sequencing and sampling systems.  (To analogize: Some people like WordPerfect, some like MSWord.  I, personally, still like WordPerfect.) Yes, it’s a steep early learning curve for the newbie—as you might personally recall from so many of my posts to you early on last summer and fall—but this not-the-brightest-B-student “got it.”
And, as for the “display size” issue (which seems to be the ONLY thing that is left for future discussion, apart from 32 tracks vs. 16), they are really, really minor matters for now.  As great as the Mo is, and it is, hat’s off to you and your team for this new Mo-ES product.  Simply fan-friggin-tastic.  Kick back, have a drink, heck have a bunch of drinks, and pat yourselves heartily on the back...for the product itself, and for pushing the envelope before Korg did.

Just tell your production/distribution people to get ‘em on the ships, planes, tranes, trucks and vans as fast as possible in September, so I can get one by my birthday (Scorpio).  Please.

(BadMister or someone, do confirm to me, though, if you can, whether I’m correct on my questions above.  THANKS!)

Best regards.

Re: Replies to Bad Mister

My understanding is that the 2nd user bank are copies of sounds elsewhere in the instrument so you can happily overwrite them knowing all those sounds will still be there in the other banks (including the 1st user bank).
This is the first I’ve heard of the Mix Voice feature too, and I’m also thrilled about it. It’s hard to imagine how anyone won’t find that it makes life so much easier. It is effectively a way of having unlimited voices available in a very transparent way. Another headache that has been a problem since the dawn of synthesizers has now been solved once and for all.
Regards+ - Wayne

YamahaUS or Bad Mister, please advise..thanks

Thanks, Wayne.  I have now edited my questions above so that Yamaha can clarify the issue.

I’m sure Yamaha_US or Bad Mister will let us know.  Much appreciated.

Re: Replies to Bad Mister

>>>>Are we limited as to what kinds of user voices we may save in either one of these banks<<<<

No.

>>>were you simply saying that when the ES ships, the factory settings have the User 2 bank filled with 128 voices that come from the presets<<<<

Yes.

There is not restriction to what you can save into any of the USER locations.

Re: Replies to Bad Mister

I say it in 1000 words.  You mightily answer it in 17 words.

Thanks and glad to hear it.