Hi,
Can anyone help me with this? I own an XS7 but also own a Roland FX8. The latter has a live setting play function which keeps level the volume of the different sounds simultaneously, so when you switch between the different sounds you don’t have significant changes of volume. How can I do this on the XS without having to play all the time with the slides? For example in a split performance with piano and organs I can barely hear the piano sound (especially when playing with my band fellows) and the organs are going to tear my ear apart! Both have Vol=127 but I cannot handle this with my master volume. Is it a matter of effects?, EQ? Do I have to store a performance with piano part’s Vol=127 and organs part’s Vol=80? This is not convienient because it may be suitable in studio but not on the stage for example. How can I overcome this problem? Many THX

Re: Motif XS Volumes on stage. PROBLEM

You actually answered your own question. If you want to keep
everything at relatively the same volume, you’ll have to make Performances and set the “quietest” voice parts to 127, and the
“loudest” ones to something like 80 or so.

Then it is just a matter of cranking up your stage volume so you
can hear it.

Re: Motif XS Volumes on stage. PROBLEM

Well, not to state the obvious, but a key difference between a piano sound and an organ sound is the organ sound is not velocity sensitive, which means it is at the volume currently set… while to get that same volume from a piano sound would require you apply significant velocity (effort) in pressing the keys.

So the volume differential between a piano and organ will depend alot on your playing style. Electronic Organs are always equipped with a volume pedal. You can no more play a B3 without a volume (expression) pedal than you could a non-touch sensitive piano… it is sort of a required thing for realism.

In a split PERFORMANCE with piano and organ - you can probably do a better job of balancing the initial settings so that when the Performance is recalled it matches your particular touch. Or you could use a pedal to control the organ.

What I recommend is that you get a Yamaha FC7 sweep pedal. Plugged into Foot Controller 1, this will default to Expression (cc011) - you can program your Performance so that the pedal only affects the Organ (not the piano) this way you have hands-free control over the organ and can play it, well, like an organ—i.e., with an expression pedal.

The pedal options on the XS can also be used to control the overal Volume of the XS. You have two Foot Controller jacks for maximum flexibility.

cc011 Expression is different message from what the CS are sending. You can have the piano ignore movement of the pedal… as follows:
Press [EDIT]
Press Track Select [1] - [4] to view PART parameters
Press [F6] RCV SWITCH (Receive Switch)
On a per PART basis you can set each to receive or ignore “Expression”
Uncheck the Expression pedal for the piano PART.
[STORE] your Performance.

Additionally, if you play with a light touch (which as mentioned will affect the output of your piano sound), you can adjust the Velocity Sensitivity of your Motif XS or of the individual Voice itself to more meet your needs. While it takes no effort to be loud on an electric organ sound, it takes a great effort to be loud on a soft-loud (piano-forte) - the name of instrument denotes this feature…

Alternatively, you also have access to the very powerful Master Effect processor. You could set this up to the VCM Compressor 376. Compressors are, technically speaking, leveling amplifiers… and are used for just such a situation as you have on stage… they prevent one sound from being significantly louder than another… Wise use of the VCM Compressor 376 algortihm can make your experience on stage with big volume difference a thing of the past and make the whole experience far more enjoyable.

Visit our Motif XS HOME PAGE and the Behind the Manual section for an article getting the most out of the Compressor.
If you get stuck post back here.

Re: Motif XS Volumes on stage. PROBLEM

Many thx. It seems that the problem can be solved via editing the vel. sensitivity of the parts. Nevertheless, a normalization button will be helpful and certainly a time saver!

Re: Motif XS Volumes on stage. PROBLEM

It seems that the problem can be solved via editing the vel. sensitivity of the parts. Nevertheless, a normalization button will be helpful and certainly a time saver!

Normalization is non-dynamic and is certainly not what you want here… Normalization takes low level static signal and brings it up to a set maximum. It works on recorded data that is being played back like on a tape or wav file.

A compressor is a like a professional normalizer that works in real time on “live” signal, if you will… Spend some time and get familiar with it. Normalization works on sounds that are not being played live (like you normalize a recorded wave so that it takes a poorly recorded signal and brings the loudest peak up to 0VU...) while a compressor is a “dynamic” device… this means it works on “live” signal. It tends to set a dynamic range that tends to work to level the signal so one cannot get louder than the other. A compressor is in the family of professional studio devices called “Leveling Amplifiers” - for very good reason… That is what they do.

You have the right concept, now you just need to experiment with the correct tool.

“Normalizing” is done after something has been recorded. Dynamic Compression is what you want to use ON STAGE. Assign the VCM COMPRESSOR 376 as your MASTER EFFECT.
Hold down the MASTER EFFECT button for 3 seconds.
This short-cut will take you right to the MASTER EFFECT Edit page.
Setup the VCM COMPRESSOR 376 - we have an extensive article in the Behind the Manual section of this site.

Hope that helps. Please, check it out… it is absolutely why it is included in the Master Effect area of the XS. If you need help getting the results you seek, post back here.

Re: Motif XS Volumes on stage. PROBLEM

Hello people,great topic ...

Bad_Mister : what settings you should describe as “general” for all keyboard sounds.I have external dbx compressor that I want to use in live rig (4 keyboards + rhodes piano),but I want to use motif vcm compressor,it is good quality in my opinion.

Thanks

Re: Motif XS Volumes on stage. PROBLEM

Setting up a compressor is very much a “it depends on the input” kind of thing… I’m a musician who took several years to study and learn about the recording studio - as I very much saw it as important to my musical future.
I put much of what I know in the article downloadable from the Behind the Manual area:
Understanding Compressors/Limiters

Re: Motif XS Volumes on stage. PROBLEM

I know what you mean about uniform gain whilst playing live. My issue was even more serious - I’m reproducing complex 16-track sequences through what is sometimes a 25-30 kilowatt PA and beyond, and early on in my XS experience I could see our sound man constantly riding the faders to compensate for the differences in overall level between individual songs, patterns and patches.

Whilst I’m totally with Bad_Mister on all the reasons why the XS has an onboard VCM compressor (and damn fine it is, too), this issue isn’t about compression as such - it’s about the overall level of the sound appearing at the XS outputs as the player scrolls through his patches - irrespective of whether it’s compressed or not. Until Yamaha produce a next-generation XS which has stereo VU meters, it’s virtually impossible to programme up a whole bunch of stuff all of which has exactly the same output level at the jacks. Sure, you can get close by ear, but ‘close’ through a 30kW PA rig isn’t good enough - unless your sound man is conscientious enough to make keyboard levels his absolute priority and ignore what’s happening elsewhere in the mix.

I chose to resolve this using outboard compressors in my mixing, FX and processing rack - in my case, dbx 160A’s - which are set up as hard peak limiters using a high compression ratio, and with the threshold levels set so that on quieter stuff, there’s no compressor activity at all, on louder stuff it’s just the extreme peaks which are triggering some very mild compression, and when all hell breaks loose, the dbx’s are holding the overall level so that it’s unnecessary for our sound guy to ride any gain at all.

Works for me. If the 160A’s are out of reach, check out the 266XL - it’s great value and fairly low-cost.

Best wishes Kevin

Re: Motif XS Volumes on stage. PROBLEM

Kevin,

What I tried (and this works for me good) is this : when setting up your keyboard patch levels,do this on very very low volume.This translates well on PA systems.I played on serious (and less serious) PA systems,on big festivals,and this worked ok for me.OFcourse,sound man must to touch my channels,but far less than before.

ANd I bought dbx 1066 for these purposes.

Re: Motif XS Volumes on stage. PROBLEM

I’ve played my share of large tours and would have killed for today’s tools. How you can go on the road today without a serious digital mixer for your keyboards is curious to me. I would not think about doing so without an 01V96.

One reason you have rehearsals is to work out what you are doing. If you are scrolling randomly through Voices on stage to find one you need...?, I simply cannot even imagine that situation.

Digital mixers like the 01V96 can be completely controlled by you from your main keyboard, they can recall your mixes and make your life a breeze: one you send to the sound guy - you can deliver a consistent level to the house mix and you can customize your own monitor mix right on stage for yourself.

I’ve helped out several major touring acts with getting the 01V96 worked into their shows and once you fly with one, you will never fly without it, again. When you recall a program in your XS, for example, it can recall all your mix settings in the 01V96… It’s been a staple on more major tours than you can shake a stick at dating back to the original 01V (1995) ... stop trying to do it the hard way (although if you cannot get a digital stage mixer for your keyboards, you still should be able to balance your own sounds prior to taking to the stage)… This is part of the preparation for show.

The 3 Banks of USER locations are there for you to store your own customized versions of the Voices you are going to use. Even if I am doing something simple like an in-store demonstration I pre-select the sounds I am going to use and make my own balance. Not that difficult. Really, it is not.

Re: Motif XS Volumes on stage. PROBLEM

Phil, you’re dead right as always, especially about the rehearsal part!! I’m fortunate in having access to a state-of -the-art studio virtually 24/7 (a good friend’s, not mine, unfortunately) - so everything is meticulously programmed, set up and endlessly rehearsed before a live note is ever struck - just the way it has to be.

I tried out the Yamaha digital console and was hugely impressed with its performance and capability, and I would grab one tomorrow if my budget allowed. Sadly (?), I’m also the band’s guitar player (a la Geddy Lee) - much footpedal work is involved - so I have to balance my keyboard ‘wish list’ with finding the funds for a bunch of quality guitars, pedalboards, walls of Marshalls, flightcases etc etc etc etc. and some parts of my rig are a necessary compromise. When our next album goes platinum, I’ll get one, the new one with all the onboard VCM stuff /forums/images/icons/smile.gif alt=

To darkstar - you’re also right as well. All my programming is done through small Genelec monitors at really low levels, I completely agree with you.

Best wishes to all

Re: Motif XS Volumes on stage. PROBLEM

Hello,

Well,ofcourse I prepare my “presets” before the show,anyone who ever played live know that searching randomly through presets is something that just can get you out of band,out of music /forums/images/icons/smile.gif alt=

I am constantly refining my sound and setup,and motifator(especially bad_mister) is great place to found out more about keyboards.

Bad_mister,I already asked on other topic,but you didn’t see that one - can you give us examples of famous keyboardist setups,for example,santana keyboardist?HE is playing yamaha,and take part on yamaha tutorial dvds,so,maybe you can reach him?Or somebody else?

Thanks in advance !

Re: Motif XS Volumes on stage. PROBLEM

Personally, I have problems because SO many of the voices were voiced so conservatively in volume, or very dark which don’t cut through the mix very well.

This is most obvious when I import Classic/ES voices into the XS.

I STILL don’t understand why +6db on the XS is the SAME apparant volume as 0db on my classic, but no one seems brave enough to take a stab at an explanation.

So now this is what I notice: To avoid re-writing these preset patches and wasting even MORE user patch space, I have to set the level to 127 for the soft voice and the other voices EXTREMELY low. Now, if I match my OTHER performances to this one, the overall volume is now even LOWER and the general opinion is the XS has low ouput to begin with!

My band members look at me with confusion when they need to MAX the gain on the (Line Level stereo) preamps so my keyboards can be heard.

I’ll have to play with the Compressor for the Master FX. If I can keep that constantly on, it may help tame the peaks (as intended) and increase the apparent volume of the low output patches.