If I’m understanding it, currently PLG voices can’t be mixed with internal voices, i.e layering an AN element and a DX element from two separate PLG boards with two other elements from the internal ROM to make a 4 element voice.

Can this be done on the Motif ES?

Thank you

Re: Questions re: Mixing PLG voices w/ Internal voices

You can do it as a Performance, which works fine, but it will take up extra channels in a mix. That’s on the current Motif.

Re: Questions re: Mixing PLG voices w/ Internal voices

That’s a shame, because on the EX5 you could do this…
And you could also use samples as elements in a voice.

Strange they haven’t implementet this in the motifs…

-Hugo-

Re: Questions re: Mixing PLG voices w/ Internal voices

I think Dave meant you can’t do it on the Motif “classic”, but I want to know if you can do it on the Motif ES.

Thanks.

Re: Questions re: Mixing PLG voices w/ Internal voices

The architecture of the EX5 was such that a VOICE could be AWM2 (just samples) Normal and Drum, AWM2+VL (samples plus 1 note of Acoustic modeling), AWM2+ANpoly (samples plus 2 notes of Analog modeling), AWM2+AN_layer (samples plus dual monoAnalog modeling), FDSP (sample modeling), or FDSP+ANmono (sample modeling plus dual mono Analog modeling). Read that again - and let me know if you think that was intuitive or easy to work with. You, the user, had to allocate DSP resources to accomplish the VL, AN or FDSP engine. You had 6 DSP FX blocks: DSP1 had 3 and DSP2 had 3. DSP1 (3 blocks) were always reserved for the AWM2 sample playback engine. You had REVERB, CHORUS and an INSERT (sound familiar, that was a single INSERT Effect) - it took all 3 blocks of DSP2 to make a VL engine, or a AN engine, or a FDSP engine. So the user had to know about allocating DSP blocks. It was awesome but difficult (ain’t it always the way?)

Enter the S80 and the “MSPS” (Modular Synthesis Plug-in System) or the PLG boards. The PLG boards, although not a perfect integration, have their own resources and by going with this design, those who understand the differences between sample playback technology (AWM2) and the other technologies can buy them separately and use them as if they were separate synthesizers that you add to the host product. The host recognizes them and loads them with preset sounds from Flash ROM. And of course you can create or customize your own Voices, and then use them in combination with other Voices in Performances and Mixes. And add DUAL INSERTION EFFECTS to them etc., etc.

What you could not do on the EX5 was use VL and AN at the same time. You only had the modes mentioned above. FM(DX) was not even an option. The PLG boards as mentioned can be combined in any of the MSPS compatible products… Motif ES/ Motif-Rack / Motif / S90 / S80 / S30 / CS6x / CS6R as Performance or in MIXES. This is a much more flexible and useable method - You can use the permanently available DSP resources of the host product. Plus some of the PLGs have their own effects processing (AN, PF, DR, PC, XG). Add to this the technologies on the PLG Board have their own polyphony - depending on what mode your Voice was in on the EX5 you had either 126, 127, 16, 128 or 9 notes of polyphony to work with!!! Don’t ask....

You can create a Performance that is AWM2 + AN + DX(FM) + VL, if you wish (At least with the MSPS compatible synths that have 3 slots). What the Motif ES adds to what you can do in the original Motif - is each of those 4 different technologies in this 4-way setup, can not only be in the same Performance but each can have its own DUAL INSERTION EFFECT activated from Voice mode!!!

So you can definitely do more with the PLG boards than you could with EX5 architecture.

Re: Questions re: Mixing PLG voices w/ Internal voices

Bad Mister,
Your last post provides a wonderful overview of the evolution of the Yamaha synth engine! Your second-to-last paragraph caught my eye:

“What the Motif ES adds to what you can do in the original Motif - is each of those 4 different technologies in this 4-way setup, can not only be in the same Performance but each can have its own DUAL INSERTION EFFECT activated from Voice mode!!!”

The specs for the ES said that in MIX and SONG mode 4 voices could have full insert FX. But does it also work, as you say above, in PERFORMANCE mode? That would really be an impressive feature for live playing.

I noticed also that there is a Multi-Part Editor for the ES, but it does not appear to edit PERFORMANCES. Perhaps you could clarify the new differences between PERFORMANCE and MIX/SONG.

Your help is always much appreciated. It’s why I bought a Motif 8 and will most likely buy a Motif ES 8.
Collard

Re: Questions re: Mixing PLG voices w/ Internal voices

The specs for the ES said that in MIX and SONG mode 4 voices could have full insert FX. But does it also work, as you say above, in PERFORMANCE mode? That would really be an impressive feature for live playing.

Actually its 8 voices in Mix/Song Mode.  In Performance Mode, all four voices get full insert effects. 

clarify the new differences between PERFORMANCE and MIX/SONG.

Here is a link that might help you out -
[url=http://www.motifator.com/motif678/btm/btm_gettingstarted.php#2]http://www.motifator.com/motif678/btm/btm_gettingstarted.php#2 [/url]


-Mike Martin
Yamaha US

Re: Questions re: Mixing PLG voices w/ Internal voices

Thanks for your help. Wow! 8 parts with full voice FX in SONG/MIX and all 4 in PERFORMANCE get full voice FX...that’s incredible. That would be 16 full size FX insertions plus master sends plus EQs plus a new final Master FX...ALL AT THE SAME TIME?

Talk about raising the bar.
Collard

Re: Questions re: Mixing PLG voices w/ Internal voices

Thanks for the comprehensive answer Bad Mister. I understand now. With different polyphonys on each board (i.e. 5 on the AN and 16 on the DX) it would be impractical to be able to combine these at the voice level.

Plus, now with 128 voices, performances start becoming as useable as voices anyway. And, effects can be more precisely assigned.

So it’s not a bad thing that PLG and internal voices can’t be combined at the voice level, rather they are to be combined at the performance or mix level.

Thanks again!