Hello everybody.
My studio setup is based on Ableton live and Virus TI and I love it,
but I thinking to buy Motif XS rack version to add some different sounds. Motif XS VSTi plugin will be work inside Ableton Live or it`s only works inside Cubase?

Re: Rack XS VSTi only in Cubase?

From what I’ve heard it will be Vst3, so cubase only.

If you have a good machine (mac/pc) and don’t need another keyboard I would go vst, avoiding all the sync, audio routing, integration problems with hdw.
I just got kore2 (soft only), the electronic experience bundle and a remote 25sl to control it. IMO a much better investment than my xs rack.

Re: Rack XS VSTi only in Cubase?

Hmmm ... if the VST editor does not provide at least an integrated editor/librarian ... that’s a GIANT mis-step on Yamaha’s part. If I can buy instruments from other manufacturers with that capability, but NOT Yamaha ... well, we know who is NOT “compatible” then, right?

Fix this Yamaha ... you don’t want another UMI-type fiasco.

Re: Rack XS VSTi only in Cubase?

So, I will buy Motif when Ableton Live will support VSTi3. I don’t like Cubase. I like Ableton workflow. Too bad that Yamaha focus only on Cubase. I wish to connect everything thru the VSTi plugins like Virus TI. Anyway, thanks a lot for answer.

Re: Rack XS VSTi only in Cubase?

Just so you know… VST and ASIO are trademarks of Steinberg (the makers of Cubase) - I’m sure it says so in your Ableton manual. So it may seem that Yamaha is concentrating on Cubase, (Yamaha does own Steinberg) but this is quite natural given the facts. But it is precisely because so much of what Steinberg has developed, like ASIO and VST, that are fairly universal standards in computer software functionality, that drew Yamaha to Steinberg in the first place.

Ableton supports VST technology so it will support most likely support the Editor… don’t make issues where they do not yet exist. Yamaha wants you to use whatever software makes you comfortable.

Re: Rack XS VSTi only in Cubase?

Just so you know… VST(1 - 2.4) and VST3 are two different standards, except the name they don’t have much in common.
So if the editor is VST3 then it will only work with Cubase as no other host vendor supports VST3.

The M3 editor is VST2 and works well with any of my host, even cubase. I just have to load a project from the host and the M3 is automatically updated, I don’t even have to open the plug window, it’s fully transparent.

With the xs, I have to launch the studio manager(......), launch the motif editor, load a file, sync with the rack(..............) and whenever I switch from/to multi I have to sync again. What a mess /forums/images/icons/frown.gif alt=

Re: Rack XS VSTi only in Cubase?

and whenever I switch from/to multi I have to sync again. What a mess

word.......

Re: Rack XS VSTi only in Cubase?

With the xs, I have to launch the studio manager(......), launch the motif editor, load a file, sync with the rack(..............) and whenever I switch from/to multi I have to sync again. What a mess

I don’t know what to say...(I’ll just take the high road) and I’ll just take it that you are asking a question.

Click OFFLINE and ONLINE, when you want to maintain your settings and temporarily go to a different mode click OFFLINE - that is the purpose. Does anyone read the documetation? (Rhetorical question)!

VST is a Steinberg trademark, when other companies get around to developing software, they too will probably support VST3. Correct it is a NEW standard. That is what moves our industry forward - new technology. If you are one that always buys on the back-end of technology, the view from the front of the pack may seem strange to you. But lets have this conversation in a few months, when more and more VST3 software becomes available. Of course, you’d expect Steinberg to have it first… duh!

I cannot speak for these other companies (and don’t profess to) but I cannot imagine that what is on offer with the VST3 specification is not thrilling for any company involved in development of plug-ins.... be they synth instruments or effects!

VST3 means (significantly) that plugins will only use CPU resources when the are actively processing data. This is huge for all those plug-ins that have a reputation for being resource heavy… this means that when you open a synth or an EQ band or whatever, it only uses resources when it is actually processing signal… instead of having to reserve them in advance and maintain the resources fulltime (like now)… I don’t have a crystal ball but I know an advancement when I see it.

Re: Rack XS VSTi only in Cubase?

I sincerely hope that Yamaha has turned over a new leaf when it comes to compatibility vs. proprietary “we own it, let’s lock everyone else or charge huge $$ for licensing”

They do have something of a history, however ... beginning with how they attempted to pretty much steal MIDI from Sequential Circuits, and started asking everyone else for licensing feess. Then there was the dismal PC-spec known as “MSX” and the way Yamaha effectively locked out every other musical instrument manufacturer, then M-Lan the “open standard” that was never really open ... a history.

Like I said, I really hope it’s different this time, Phil. But you can’t blame people for being a bit wary.

Seriously ... just about everyone is going to some kind of VST pluggin for their hardware ... and they all operate pretty well from the few I’ve worked with. They all work pretty SIMPLY as well. This whole nonsense of having to load Studio Manager first, online/offline, etc. ... gives me a bad feeling about where this could be headed. I can imagine - based upon history - that Yamaha is going to pull some kind of crap requiring VST3 plugs to be “SM Compatible” and we’ll have to load everything in SM first .... arrrrgh! And then Yamaha will demand source code for every pluggin to “test” it ... and a new licensing structure ... uh huh ... nice.

Seriously ... I hope it doesn’t go down like that.

Re: Rack XS VSTi only in Cubase?

Writing your own history… hmmm

Don’t know what to say… you put it in print and now have to live with your words. I’ll save it and remind of it later /forums/images/icons/smile.gif alt=

That “dismal PC-spec known as “MSX"” helped put a small company from the Pacific Northwest on the map… maybe you’ve heard of them? Steal MIDI from Sequential Circuits - yikes you are way off, JonathanTimeBandit.

Multiple channels of MIDI and AUDIO via Firewire… you’re right, not a good idea, no one will want to do that!!! (:-0

Seriously ... I hope it doesn’t go down like that.

You’ll simply have to wait and see....

Re: Rack XS VSTi only in Cubase?

Well, it’s like this. It’s not necessary to “make up” anything when you were present at the time certain events occured, or know people who were. I go back far enough (and farther) that I helped Gary Leuenberger setup, MIDI-connect (and troubleshoot) 50+ DX7s in ballroom next door to the convention center ... numsayin’? Were you there? If so, tell me what happened when Gary played all 50+ DX7s at once? It’s amazing what happens when you go IN-THRU-IN-THRU-IN-THRU that many times! I’ve got VHS home movies, lol. I don’t know if you were around to recall the buzz at NAMM when Roland and Sequential hooked up the first 2 MIDI devices from different manufacturers. The buzz was twofold: It was the first really public demo of MIDI, and someone from Yamaha was threatening legal action ... you had to be there I guess. I was. So pardon me if your statement about “making up history” sounds a bit like the old Marx Brothers joke: “Who are you going to believe, ME or your own 2 eyes?”

Seriously though, just stating the facts shouldn’t make enemies, and you are sortof misrepresenting my point. I don’t have some conspiracy theory about Yamaha ... they aren’t ‘evil’, they’re Yamaha ... and thay have a certain history of doing things a certain way. I don’t hate them or fear them or even really think much about it except when all of my other stuff works together and my Yamaha stuff doesn’t/won’t unless I go 100% “Team Yamaha”. I love my Rack XS every bit as much as I liked my Rack ES, and my TX816 Rack, and my DX7, RX15, CS-60, CS80, CS-20M, CS01 and CS-15 ... OK?

I don’t think anyone - outside of someone drinking the brand-Y koolaid - seriously thinks MSX “put Microsoft on the map” ... jeez that’s just laughable. MSX is however another example of Yamaha trying to control a technology spec and muscle out competitors though. I had a CX5M myself ... I actually was a beta tester for the DX7 Editor, RX Editor and FB01 editor ... oops there goes that “I was there” history again.

My point about MLan is not that it’s a “bad idea” ... you’d have to not read what I wrote to get that impression. It is however another example of Yamaha’s approach. MLan licenses have been available since what ... 1999, 2000 or so? And going on 9-10 years later ... you’ve got Yamaha, (partially Yamaha owned) Korg (well sortof) and Soundart(huh?) onboard? It’s a GREAT idea, but once again Yamaha’s approach to licensing has bulloxed the whole thing up.

You can go on further and note Stenberg’s new “Cubase only” hardware ... same tune with a different title.

I’m not trying to be mean-spirited, but it sure appears a certain way to a guy like me who has been around long enough, and had enough experience to see it happen over and over. Pardon me if I think things are roughly just about what they appear to be. If it walks like a duck, etc. ...

What you can’t see in print is that I have a very bemused attitude about all of this ... certainly not foaming at the mouth or trying to pick a fight. I just have been where I’ve been, know what I know and have seen what I have seen ... saying so directly shouldn’t be a problem. I will be thrilled to no end to see Yamaha do it differently in this case, and I honestly hope that they do.

Do I owe you an apology for anything? Please let me know?

Re: Rack XS VSTi only in Cubase?

Jonathan,

I do understand your point of view about Yamaha/Steinberg doctrine with respect to mLAN or the newest Steinberg/Yamaha firewire driver. But I feel its the right way to do for a big concern like Yamaha to quarantee having a future market for their products and generating enough income to continue their research for making better products.

Just like Microsoft, they want to control the market for their products. I think thats more than logical to do so. Finally the customer of Yamaha products will have the last word in this. If they do not accept this new Yamaha/Steinberg concept, they simply do not buy the stuff.

You do not have to buy Yamaha products, there are a lot of alternative’s.

Jan

Re: Rack XS VSTi only in Cubase?

In reply to Bad-Mister’s post: “Does anyone read the documetation? (Rhetorical question)!”

If a user has to read the documentation then the product has a failure to communicate. Hasn’t Yamaha heard of Vlogs or YouTube? The best way to teach people how to use an instrument or almost any resource is with videos, not with a poorly written user manual. It is actually quite easy, use Adobe’s Visual Communicator 3 or Techsmith’s Camtasia and place the User Manual online as a video.

I know this because I am the CEO of a software company who has 250,000 customers… and rather than have them call Customer Support daily because they didn’t RTFM, we place our complete user manuals online as videos. Our support costs have almost gone to zero.  Thank you Internet.

Re: Rack XS VSTi only in Cubase?

I’m sure Yamaha has heard of Vlog and YouTube (lol)… but you cannot really do that in this instance as the product being discussed has not yet hit the market… But your point is well taken and Camtasia instructional items and full videos are constantly being made. But it still does not replace reading the manual. There is no excuse for not reading the instructions on an installation. It is usually short, sweet and keeps the price of things musician friendly (FREE)!!!

Yamaha makes a great, great (great) number of products and it is a daunting task to make a video for every installation and every product. 

You can view many of them online right now… with many, many, many more to come. Still don’t think it will give us the support costs going to zero that you have acieved - that is a quite an accomplishment and congratulations on that!!! ... but here at Yamaha we can only hope ...

There is a Yamaha Channel on YouTube, by the way…

If you go to Support Network web Resource page you can link to lots of related sites for online support… many feature video support.

[url=http://www.mpsn.com]http://www.mpsn.com [/url]

Try the one labeled Yamaha.com to visit the Yamaha Hub of all things Yamaha

You can go to [url=http://www.steinbergusers.com]http://www.steinbergusers.com [/url] and see video clips using Camtasia dating back several years… so it is a process. Do we have 100% of our products listed with this type of support… no, we may never be able to catch up… But every one of those products does have a manual… so the saying “reading is fundamental” is going to have to do, at least until we can do a video manual on everything we make… Yikes… /forums/images/icons/smile.gif alt=

Re: Rack XS VSTi only in Cubase?

You seem to have a stutter in your sentences (eg: great, great, great, many, many, many). /forums/images/icons/smile.gif alt=

I just received my copy of Omnisphere from Spectrasoncis.  When I started to install it, I was pleasantly surprised with an installation video. This is a nice touch! Unfortuantely, the video told me that it would take approx. 6 hours to install the full sample set, BUT… I would be able to watch Omnisphere instructional videos by clicking on a button.  Very professional.

OK, OK, OK… I’m done. Thank God. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif alt=

Re: Rack XS VSTi only in Cubase?

6 Hours to install… Yikes! I bet you can watch the video and actually read the manual, too! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif alt=