As far as the action is concerned.  It seems these manufacturers have been skimping on the quality of the keybed for the past 5 years or so.  The triton studio and korg z1 have much more solid feeling, smoother, heavier keys than most of the “new” synths.  Even the motif es has a much sturdier keybed than the new XS. 

I was contemplating the XS, but i figure I could replace my Triton Extreme and get the ES6 for the same price as the XS right now.  And the keyboard on the ES, is just not worth sacrificing for a better sequencer in a keyboard for performance.  Music still has to be “performed”. 

Too much non musicians making “music” these days… but thats another story.

My favorite feeling keyboards are the casio privia, yamaha p120 for pianos, and korg z1 for synths… whats your preference?

Re: MOTIF ES STILL RULES...

I agree with you that ES is still on the top. I tried XS few days ago at local Yamaha distributor, but I didn’t find something that would make me to replace my ES with XS. The most voices uses 4 elements or less as ES, and most of them are exactly ES voices! Yes, I would like to have a bigger colorful screen and 4 simultaneous arps, but in that case I’m using laptop with Cubase and some other very useful software. Also, you could not put plug-in boards in XS and for me some possibilities and voices from VL, AN and DX are unbeatable. I think that guys from Yamaha beleives that anyone who already has ES would not trade it for XS but add XS to ES. If I have enough budget now, I would like to buy XS8 since it already has mLAN to add to my ES filled with VL, AN.
Finally, I agree with you that there are too much non musicians these days.

Alex

Re: MOTIF ES STILL RULES...

DITTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ES still rules:

My friend who I bought my ES from, purchased the XS and does’nt like it, and he’s taking it back to GC here in NC.
So he wants to buy back my ES.
He’s my friend and all, but that’s not gonna happen(lol).
I guess he’s gonna have to shop on Ebay (lol)



Peace:Q

Re: MOTIF ES STILL RULES...

Also, DITTO!!!!!

Re: MOTIF ES STILL RULES...

< As far as the action is concerned. It seems these manufacturers have been skimping on the quality of the keybed for the past 5 years or so. The triton studio and korg z1 have much more solid feeling, smoother, heavier keys than most of the "new" synths. Even the motif es has a much sturdier keybed than the new XS. >

I’m very surprised nobody has talked about this before.
Personally I can’t stand the keybed on the XS - to me it feels cheap and flimsy - offers no resistance at all. It was promoted as the ‘new and improved keys’. NOT!
I haven’t taken my XS to a single gig simply because I can’t play the damn thing - it’s sitting at home being only used as a soundmodule. If Yamaha had included sampling in their rack version I would have replaced with the module.
How’s that progress - the ES felt good to me, absolutely NO reason to change that. Needless to say I won’t be buying any new board with this wimpy, cheap plastic action on it.

-Kim

Re: MOTIF ES STILL RULES...

It seems as a result of trying to become enviormentally friendly, Yamaha removed the lead weights in the keybed on the XS. While in the USA the lead was not a problem, apparently in Europe it was, so they made a decision to completely remove the lead from the keybed across the board.

I do agree that the ES has a better feel than the XS. And that is one of the reasons I have not upgraded. As far as I know, the keybed on the ES8 & XS8 are still the same.

Pete

Re: MOTIF ES STILL RULES...

Just a thought - would it be possible to order a replacement keybed for an ES6 and fit it in an XS6?



-Kim

Re: MOTIF ES STILL RULES...

Pianokim, That’s a Freakin shame, the consumer spends 3 grand on a keyboard and then spend additional $ to actually play the damn thing, to get any satisfaction out of it.
I don’t mind spending 50.000 on a vehicle and then spend additional cash for customized acessories (pimp my ride).
But to buy a better water pump because the one from the manufactuer does’nt suffice? Unbelievable!

Oh, I get it! (spend more, get less).




Peace:Q

Re: MOTIF ES STILL RULES...

I dunno - some people obviously like the new keys.
To me they feel like what’s on the cheaper PSR one-finger keyboards Yamaha makes. I guess if you’re not really going to actually play it doesn’t matter. Samples and arpeggios can be triggered with a doorbell-knob for that matter.

At any rate I can’t play these keys without completely changing my technique.
It’s like having absolutely no chops all over again.
Couldn’t they find something other than lead to give those keys a bit of substance?


-Kim

Re: MOTIF ES STILL RULES...

wooden keys maybe?

Jan

Re: MOTIF ES STILL RULES...

Even wooden keys need counter weights


-Kim

Re: MOTIF ES STILL RULES...

I prefer the keys on the XS over the ES hands down. The old FS action was a definite drawback for me. Never understood why there had to be that sluggish (IMO) initial resistance. The new FSX action feels a lot smoother and easier to control at low velocities.

Re: MOTIF ES STILL RULES...

Even when you play piano/rhodes sounds?

I’m baffled..?!


-Kim

Re: MOTIF ES STILL RULES...

Kim,

The keyboard of the TYROS2 is an FSX type keyboard and you are right. You cannot properly play piano/roland on it, because you are hurting your fingers. The fingers are landing to hard down when you need some velocity action on the keys. I prefer to play those sounds on my ES8, because its more gentle for my fingers and hands.

Jan

Re: MOTIF ES STILL RULES...

Yes the ES8 with it’s weighted action is of course ideal.
I still recall when the DX7 came out in the early 80’s. Up until then a synth keyboard meant a spongy light plastic feeling keyboard - unless the manufacturer was trying to recreate a ‘piano action’ like on the PolyMoog or Prophet T8.
As much as I loved my Jupiter 8 and MiniMoog the feel of the keys were not the reason - but at that time we didn’t know it could be any different.
The DX7 suddenly proved that a synth keyboard could have a nice feel - you could play ElPiano sounds on it all night without ruining your hands - and as it turned it out was also more ideal for blazing fast synth leads than anything that came before it. If you’re trained on a real piano your fingers expect some weight in the keys to work against.
Every top-level synth since then has had some sort of weights in the keys to create a sense of substance and resistance.

Yamaha has apparently decided that that doesn’t matter anymore and that it’s time to turn the clock back 25 years in the area - whether an attempt at a ‘vintage feel’ or a realization that most new customers don’t even really ‘play’ anymore or just to save production costs.
I respectfully disagree, and won’t be buying anymore products with these keys on them.



-Kim

Re: MOTIF ES STILL RULES...

I see that this post rules to many experiences. Well, that’s way this forum is a proper place for talk about Motif.
PeterS is right when say that keybad is the same on ES8 and XS8. I tried yesterday at local distributor again, both XS6 and XS8 and than ES8 and my ES6 (when I’m back home). Also, I tried Tyros 2, it’s very nice! Now, I’m pretty sure: my next instrument for add to existing ES6 will be XS8 or Motif Rack XS.

Alex