Note: I have moved this posting from a reply I made in the XS keyboard forum because this topic really relates to the Rack XS, not to the keyboard… I have also reworded to try to make it clear what my problem is.

Problem: I have found that the Multi presets found on the Rack XS editor cannot be over-written to match changes made on the Rack XS itself.

I have rearranged the first 24 multi’s in my Rack XS (a collection from each of the banks) by loading from the editor to the desired location on the Rack. I then store each location change on the Rack itself (Store > Enter > Enter).

Now I want these changes to be updated to the Editor, so I can save the file by a unique name for later use. When I sync from Rack to PC, the Multi presets found in the Editor do not update to match the current state of the rack. It continues to show Chilltronika as the first one, etc, which is no longer true on the rack

How can I cause the Editor to synchronize and update to match what is on the Rack?

Everything works fine for voices. I can import with the editor to where I want them in the Editor’s User banks. I can also make changes directly on the rack when not connected to the computer, and later when I sync, the Editor is updated to properly reflect the the changes I made on the hardware. It’s just as you would expect.

I hope I am doing something wrong, but it appears that the Multi presets found in the editor cannot be over-written.

Thanks in advance.

Bob

Re: Trouble syncing Multi’s to the Editor

I’m still not clear on what you think should happen but here are some things that may help.

The Motif Rack XS Editor is capable of handling one Multi setup at a time. So when you say you have placed these Performance Multis (LAYER 1-4 ON) physically into place in your Motif Rack XS, that I understand… what I don’t understand is how you want the Editor do deal with that… given that the Motif Rack XS Editor is capable of handling one Multi setup at a time.

You seem to understand that VOICES are written to USER Voice banks and that these are represented in the Editor as USER VOICE banks. I guess what you are failing to see is that there is no USER PERFORMANCE bank in the EDITOR. USER PERFORMANCES are like MULTIs… the Editor deals with just one at a time.

When you see the 384 Performances in the Editor this is simply the Performance Presets - you cannot write to PRESETs you can not destroy the Presets, you can only recall them when you want to use them.

The fact that you have 24 Multis you made and placed in the Motif-Rack XS is not going to influence the Editor. You could have created 128 MULTI setups.

You can recall one of them at a time. If you are ONLINE the Editor will automatically capture the data when you call up the MULTI. If you are OFFLINE you can use the BULK option to capture the current Multi to the Editor.

To do so with the Editor here is what I suggest:
Go to BULK on the main Menu bar
Select DATA SYNC
Set the direction to RECEIVE
Select CURRENT

You have options to RECEIVE (into the Editor) the current (one) Multi, and/or the various VOICE banks… At no time is the capability to archive your 128 Multis total…

The purpose of the Editor is to store just the one Multi with the Project you used it in on your computer. It additionally saves all USER VOICES because potentially you could be using any of them in this project (via Program Change).

Preset PERFORMANCES - like PRESETS (anywhere) cannot be overwritten - that is always true…

Re: Trouble syncing Multi’s to the Editor

Thanks for your reply. Sorry that I don’t explain myself very well.

My error was in thinking that I could sync and update the software editor to match the complete state of the Rack itself - as you can with the user voices. Sort of like an ALL file on my Motif ES, if you see my point.

While not possible, here’s an example of why a person would want this functionality. Let’s say I want a particular order of multi’s to match a set list. I get everything all set, and save this editor file. Later, I want to change the order or add some other multis. No problem, I load the editor, import what I want, move them around and save as a different file name. Later, I want to bring that first set up back. Just load that file, etc.

Keep in mind that the only way that a multi can be changed is to physically press the buttons on the Rack itself, so ordering them as needed is really important.

You have confirmed that mulits are a one at a time thing, and that they cannot be imported and moved around as with User voices. So all of this ‘management’ has to be done on the Rack itself each time with no ability to recall a previous order or collection of multis. A curious implementation in my opinion, but I do appreciate knowing that I’m not doing something wrong.

I’ve e-mailed John Melas and he tells me that his software for the rack should be out in September, so I’m hoping there is a multi editor that functions like his Performance editor does for the Motif ES.

Thanks again for your help.

Bob

Re: Trouble syncing Multi’s to the Editor

I agree that this is an odd way of doing things..Firstly Yamaha do not provide all the performances on the the rack, and then they, in my opinion, compound that error by not giving any facility to bulk upload a new bank.

What if you want to preview all the multis in bank 2 before committing them to “precious” user spots in the limited “VERY” 128 user spots?

Talk about a poor cousin to the keyboard versions!!!

As an example, it has just taken me 21 minutes to upload 10 multis because of how the editor works...very slowly!!!

Yamaha you have to do better than this. Just because its the “cheap” entry point,doesn’t mean we don’t deserve the same operational facilities as the keyboard version users get, or similar.

Dennis

Re: Trouble syncing Multi’s to the Editor

You should never, ever expect simple things (or at least they are simple will all of your other equipment) to be simple on Yamaha gear, lol.

Seriously, you are just somehow wrong to do that, nahmean? There is always some reason why you are the problem or why Yamaha’s idea of what you should want is so much better than what you really want or reasonably expect based upon your experience with just about everything else.

This isn’t always bad. You wouldn’t have something as incredible as the Rack XS if they didn’t sortof follow their own muse instead of doing things ‘normally’, lol. Even so, it’s frustrating that they can’t seem to implement common features in straight forward ways.

Try not to get angry. That just convinces them that you are being unreasonable.

Re: Trouble syncing Multi’s to the Editor

Hey Jonathan,

LOL, yeah I get your drift!!

I have just had replies to my other posts about this and BM advises it is not possible to do.

I wanted to transfer the whole bank, as i find quickly scrolling through and trying each performance, far quicker on the XS, rather than the added time of the 5 or 6 seconds required for the editor program to dump in the info from the rack, not to mention the convoluted setup for actually playing it with the controller keyboard, as it then needs to be routed via the PC, instead of simple on cable midi out/in.

Because the editor apparently does not work over midi (well I could not get it to work properly in my case, only via USB).

Anyway, I am nearly done now so the whole question is academic.

One thing I would like to know, is WHY yamaha didn’t just provide three banks of user multis on the XS in the first place??

I can understand the removal of the performance button from the ES and including them (perf’s) as multis, and that 1-4 button is really quite clever in how it operates, but WHY oh WHY not give us three user banks ????

Anyhoo,

Cheers
Dennis

Re: Trouble syncing Multi’s to the Editor

Seriously, you are just somehow wrong to do that, nahmean? There is always some reason why you are the problem or why Yamaha’s idea of what you should want is so much better than what you really want or reasonably expect based upon your experience with just about everything else.

I just try and tell you how the item (actually) works. If you don’t like how it (actually) works that is really on you. It is not my place to do anything but explain, in response to questions, how it (actually) does work and how you can then proceed to get the most out of it. Don’t hate the messenger… if you don’t appreciate the answers, just let me know and I’ll not answer your particular questions. Or perhaps you rather I just say it is possible - even if it is not ...I don’t get it!!!

Re: Trouble syncing Multi’s to the Editor

If you took my comments as being directed specifically at you Phil, you have my apologies. You aren’t part of the problem.

You do an incredible job, and Yamaha is lucky to have you.