Hi All - One of the things that helps me learn to sing a new song is to match the intervals in the song to other songs that are burned into my brain. So, for example, in my mind I sing:

1) ”Born Free” to go down from a note to its 5th (like a G to a D);
2) ”Twinkle Twinkle” to go up from a note to its 5th (like a G to a D)
3) The first two notes of the TV jingle from ”N-B-C”, to go up a 6th,
4) ”Here Comes the Bride” to go up a 4th.
5) To go down from the major 3rd of a chord to the dominant (like an E to a C) - I use a weird one, ”Da---rryl”, they used to mock a certain baseball player in the 80’s in Yankee Stadium with that (Daryll Strawberry). I’m sure there are more musical ones, but that works for me!
6) That 70’s song ”Feelings” to go down from a note to it’s minor third (like from an E to a G).

Can someone help me out with some of these others please (it’s for a harmony to Sheryl Crow’s “First Cut is the Deepest")? If it’s an interval embedded in a major verse from a Beatles hit, that would be great, as it would definitely qualify as “burned into my brain” (or a nursery rhyme would work too)!

1. Up an augmented 4th (for example, a G to a C#).
2. Down from the dominant of a chord to the tonic (for example, a G to a C).
3. Down a minor 3rd (for example, a D to a B). I sing “Duke of Earl” to get this, but it takes too long /forums/images/icons/smile.gif alt=

And ... if you know any other intervals, please pass those along too!

I know after a while the intervals become instinctive, but it sure helps me to think in these terms when starting out.

Thanks /forums/images/icons/smile.gif alt=

Re: Learning the intervals ‘tween notes - help please!

Fantasy Island Theme - root jumps to a major 7th (C to B)
Star Trek Theme - root jumps to minor 7th (C to Bb)

If I think of any interesting ones, I’ll post ‘em.....

Re: Learning the intervals ‘tween notes - help please!

Thanks, Mo-Z!

And, after further research, here is the SITE OF ALL SITES for finding a song for a specific interval!!

[url=http://www.musicalintervalstutor.info/listenpg.html]http://www.musicalintervalstutor.info/listenpg.html [/url]

Re: Learning the intervals ‘tween notes - help please!

Wow.  It’s been a while since I’ve posted!

Remember that an interval is measured UP.  If you are thinking DOWN, you’re talking about an Inverted Interval.

In other words, going from C UP to G is a PERFECT Fifth.
G going UP to C is a PERFECT Fourth.


Also, remember that those intervals are specific to a SCALE; or a KEY.  The example above is in the Diatonic C MAJOR.

Only Unisons ("Firsts"), Octaves ("Eigths"), and 4ths and 5ths are PERFECT.

The others are Augmented, Minor, Diminished, or Major.

So a C to E in C Major is a Major 3rd.
But C to E in E Major is either a Augmented 3rd or a Diminished 4th.  /forums/images/icons/smile.gif alt=

I think I got that right…

Re: Learning the intervals ‘tween notes - help ple

“But C to E in E Major is either a Augmented 3rd or a Diminished 4th. “

I’d have to disagree. A third is a third no matter what key you’re thinking in. A major third is four semitones as in C up to E. The relationship between those two frequencies doesn’t change because someone imposes a different key signature.

Bob

Re: Learning the intervals ‘tween notes - help ple

Yeah, I knew someone would call me out on that…

You’re right, it doesn’t matter what key you’re in.

But for the purpose of the discussion, the “key” is always defined by the Lower Note of the interval.

I was trying to highlight the fact that an Aug 4th and a Dim 5th are actually the SAME NOTE, just spelled differently.

So, yeah, I mis-stated that…

Re: Learning the intervals ‘tween notes - help ple

But for the purpose of the discussion, the “key” is always defined by the Lower Note of the interval.

In “Twinkle, Twinkle”, your own example, the tonic is actually the upper note of the interval.

Re: Learning the intervals ‘tween notes - help ple

In “Twinkle, Twinkle”, your own example, the tonic is actually the upper note of the interval.

Are you sure, young Jedi? Or are you thinking pantonally?
Seriously, you’re wrong and now must take remedial theory 101......  /forums/images/icons/wink.gif alt=

Re: Learning the intervals ‘tween notes - help ple

The key is usually defined by the key signature. If you are in the key of C and see the note of an F#, then you are probably dealing with a secondary dominant. However, for the purposes of this forum, the word “interval” is defined as “the distance between two notes.” It doesn’t matter if the first note is the lower or higher of the two. The interval is the distance between them. So, a C up to an E is a major 3rd (upward) and an E down to a C is a major 3rd (downward).

An augmented fourth is also called a diminished fifth. These are very common in gospel music. For example you may have an Eb major chord in the right hand but play a Db and G in the left hand. This is also called a “tritone.” Very effective if used properly. Tritones are also the basis of diminished 7th chords. Here is a list of tritones:

C - F#
Db-G
D-G#
Eb-A
E-A#
F-B

Gb-C (which is the first one in the list)

That is your theory lesson for the day. Perhaps next we will discuss secondary dominants. Or picardy 3rds. Also very fun. LOL....

Re: Learning the intervals ‘tween notes - help ple

Lots of jazz keyboard charts I’ve seen don’t have a key signature at all.  The implication is that they’re all in the key of C?  Nah, when you’re dealing with chords, key signatures aren’t important.

Another way to describe a Tritone is that it’s the exact middle of an octave.  So-Named because the interval is THREE whole TONES.  Not to be confused with a Triad. 

Advanced Theory:  Despite what we all learned in music class, An Aug 4th is NOT actually the same as a Dim5th unless you’re using Equal Temperament.  Same reason why a Gb is not the same as an F# unless you’re using Equal Temperament.

To pull this back to MOTIF-Land, has anyone ever set their synth to play in PURE temperament?  It’s kinda interesting…

Re: Learning the intervals ‘tween notes - help ple

Lots of jazz keyboard charts I’ve seen don’t have a key signature at all. The implication is that they’re all in the key of C? Nah, when you’re dealing with chords, key signatures aren’t important.

Horsehockey!  That’s just plain laziness on the composer’s part.  I was taught by the best [shouts to Neal Desby & Tony Fox @ USC] that a proper lead sheet has a time signature, key signature, and tempo markings as well as melody and chords.  As a T.A., I would mark off 1/2 a grade for anything missing in a chart.  Also, if you plan to send a chart to a copyist or arranger, key signature is important.  The more info you put in a chart, the less questions you’ll get from your reader/performer, and the easier your rehearsal/performance will go.  Now if the chart is for yourself alone, whatever floats your boat......

Re: Learning the intervals ‘tween notes - help ple

Thank you,Mo-z. I’ve been “sitting in the audience” on this one. This type of subject comes up every now and then and is still facinating,to me, some of the perceptions, situations and conclusions come to.

“Back in the day” the musicians of the group I toured with were asked to play behind others in the show. they were “Classic R&B or Rock & Roll “type” acts and I knew most of the music anyway. But they would hand me some pretty lame excuses for “charts”.

It doesn’t really matter how “simple” or complexed the genera is. You have to give someone as many tools to draw from as you can. At the very least, Key Signature, Chord Qualities, Melody and Sections ie “A” “B” “C” Codas etc. “I” like to highlight Bridges,but that’s me.

I always go back to what my uncle told me after answering these “questions” about Theory & Harmony”. He’d answer and then say, “Now just play and determine what it’s supposed to ‘sound’ like”. Evidence of this can be found in Stevie Wonder “charts”. Some of his voicings can confound “conventional principles” of Theory & Harmony.
Just a thought......

Re: Learning the intervals ‘tween notes - help ple

TonyPhillips,

Not much of an argument there. Lots of jazz keyboard charts I’ve seen do have a key signature. LOL.

Indeed you are correct in that a Tritone is also three whole steps (actually the definition of tone would be quite different and is actually very subjective relative to context).

Also I was speaking tonally regarding the Aug 4th and Dim5th. Indeed any music theorist should know that a Gb is not an F# if it were written down. However, tonally (what one would hear) would be the same “tone.” Maybe not the same note. There is your difference. LOL.

The motif has a very good sampling of different tunings. I have yet to delve into this. However I am wondering if I can have one sound in a song have a different tuning (for example an arabic tuning for a flute sound) and everything else be different?

Nice discussion here…

Re: Learning the intervals ‘tween notes - help ple

“Also I was speaking tonally regarding the Aug 4th and Dim5th. Indeed any music theorist should know that a Gb is not an F# if it were written down. However, tonally (what one would hear) would be the same “tone.” Maybe not the same note. There is your difference. LOL.”

I “think” that you both are going about this with the wrong proposition.
The Scaling of tones is Progressive.
C#-D#’..E#(which is “actually” F) and the Augmented 4th is F#
or…
Db-Eb-F and the Augmented 4th would be Gb

In this “Flat/Sharp” notation,the Root or Point of Origin in the Scale determines “Flat/Sharp” notation.
Personally, I prefer the “Number System”,but that’s another story altogether.
Just a thought.............

Re: Learning the intervals ‘tween notes - help ple

TheDukester,

I prefer the number system as well as it can be translated into any key....


However, your point is incorrect. You stated, “C#-D#’..E#(which is “actually” F) and the Augmented 4th is F#
or…
Db-Eb-F and the Augmented 4th would be Gb”

in actuality in your first argument the augmented 4th would be F double sharp (yes, there is a signal for this). the F# would just be a perfect 4th in a C# scale. Likewise, the Gb is a perfect 4t in the Db scale. The augmented forth would be G (natural)…

Re: Learning the intervals ‘tween notes - help ple

You’re right! It would be an F## (or G natural or Flatted 5th). I was thinking Scalewise, Chordally and “Suspended” 4th. That’s one of the reasons why I don’t deal with Keys or the trappings of Theory & Harnomy. One can get so caught up in the “Arithmatic” of it all. There “is” a point where it stops being creative and imaginative and begins to be systematic and mechanical like exercises. How exciting is that to “do” nevermind “listen” to?