Let’s say I have an order from a client for a demo that requires a West Coast Hip Hop sound. On the XS, will it be this simple?:

1.  Find the right drum kit and then, conveniently search for a “category” of arpegiattor that matches.

2. find a second similar bass sound and arpegiattor (not the same as #1) in the same category

3. Repeat 1 & 2 for synth sound and maybe, guitar.

Then, use intelligent chording (just like the one and two finger stuff on the TRYROS - or full finger chordal -and -

The XS will follow my chords and it will be as if i were playing a Style on a TYROS2 or PSR.

If so, then if there are 6,800 arps and four different ones can be run simultaneously - then it could take a full year to really hear all the possibilities....

Re: Do I have this right?

Sure buddy, it might take even longer than that.
Also don’t forget the loop remix feature, so that makes it even longer.
Hey just buy the thing, make the beats, and make the money, and stop tripping...lol
Oh, and post some free stuff in MoSongs as well.

Good Luck Buddy

Re: Do I have this right?

1) you have a choice, you can start with the drum kit and then try arpeggios or you can start by selecting the arpeggio… by setting the “Arp with Voice” parameter to ON - when you select the arpeggio it will automatically call up the appropriate drum kit. Your choice.

2) or you could write your own bass line

3) or you could write your own parts

The fingering mode thing is somewhat different on the XS (and this is an important thing to understand). If you want a Tyros you should get a Tyros. We will be posting explanations of how you can work with the XS as we get closer to April.

In short there are “ES type” arpeggio patterns that work like the arps in the ES… You might have a rock blues riff that plays when triggered. Or you have “XS type” arpeggios with a special new chord recognition algorithm. But until you actually sit behind an arp and work with it can you really tell what it can be good for and how you might like to use it ... Each can use it differently… Take Blake Angelos, who found a funk guitar and immediately to him it felt better if he offset it so that the upbeat fell on the downbeat… turning the feel around.
Also extremely different is that the number of notes you play dynamically determines the output of the arpeggio - I cannot stress how different this make the XS. You will have to experience it - (I’ve attempted to describe how good ice cream is enough, you have to taste it.)

I do believe you will have to wait and sit behind one… the way the XS works is more wide open and flexible - you might be putting unnecessary restrictions on it, and in fact, how it works might be more hip than you are thinking. There is a similarity but it will not feel exactly the same as if you were to play a Style on the Tyros 2 or PSR… if that is what you want, we make Tyros 2 and PSRs just for that purpose (the XS is not trying to do that exactly, can you understand that?). The XS is going to be a different animal.

The arranger workstation would be right if you have “a client for a demo that requires a West Coast Hip Hop sound” - and by “having a client” I get the idea that you are in a hurry to finish (time is of the essence) you might be better served with a Tyros2 or PSR (the PSR-S500 might be a good investment for those rush jobs, it is powerful and yet economical) ... However, if you are into writing and making this your OWN thing (and not just in a hurry to accomplish the task and get paid) then you might find the XS a more creative tool. I’m not saying you could not be creative on a Tyros2 or PSR (not at all), just that if speed is your thing - you would be better served there. If you are a total “do-it-yourself-er” and want the technology to assist you in being creative - I think that is where XS will excel.

There are 6,633 arps (not to over- or understate it) and the purpose is not necessarily to make Styles (sure you could/can, that is one of the things the XS will let you do) but to use the content as ‘musical’ Leggo - you can mix and match and, yes, REMIX and match phrases. You will not be able to hear all the possibilities, period, and that is the idea behind the concept - not a finite number of styles, but content that can be an endless source of material for those who want to construct music.

Phrase Factory 2.0 The end of writer’s block as we know it.

Re: Do I have this right?

Phil,

Can one program his own “XS Type” arpeggios with chord intelligence? How is it done?

Re: Do I have this right?

You will not be able to hear all the possibilities, period

NOT TRUE - I am getting an XS for ONE purpose - to hear every possible permutation of the arpeggios which I will document daily on YouTube. Then hopefully when the Motif successor comes out I will have met my goal and perhaps have enough sponsors to not even have to buy it on my own.

Can one program his own “XS Type” arpeggios with chord intelligence? How is it done?

Yes - spill the beans man!!! Do tell us how this can be done. (If Im going to meet my goal I will need to know this as well).

Or I could just score some nifty chunks of bodachous music and make money that way.

On the serious note - how DO you program your own XS-type arps?

Re: Do I have this right?

Also extremely different is that the number of notes you play dynamically determines the output of the arpeggio - I cannot stress how different this make the XS. You will have to experience it

And this supposes to be a good thing? So- lets say you playing 3 chords 3 notes in each. You have one type of arps running- everything is nice. And then you want to take 4 notes chord and your arpegio is gone. It changes to who knows what. I think this is “problem” with most arpeggiators. To have same arp you have to play same # of notes. Also I keep getting confused. Are your arps are phrases or just “up” “down” “randon” “chord” type of thing?

Re: Do I have this right?

Sorry, but describing an awful lot this stuff is like writing a manual to tie your shoes. It is takes much more time to explain in words that it does to do.

Here are the only real words you need.

1) Select a performance on the XS
2) Play the keyboard and you’ll easily figure out what sounds good with the arps and phrase adn regular keyboard parts that are under your control
3) When you’ve got something you want to record, hit record

BTW, the dynamic track allocation in the XS and ES was designed specifically to solve the “problem” with most arpeggiators - To have same arp you have to play same # of notes” You are right, this is the problem with most arp enginers and multiple tracks in the XS solves it to a large degree.  Traditonal arp engines really break down when trying to play realistic acoustic parts and changing the number of notes in the arp.

Think of it like this, if you are playing a guitar arp and play with with one finger , the XS plays what a guitarist would play when he plays one note, if you play two fingers, the XS plays what a guitarist would play when he plays two , etc.

Usually when you get to four notes , it’s chord .

But again you don’t have to think about it when you are playing . The technology is very transparent, invisible and therefore musical.

Progamming your own arps

We did a section in the DVD on programming your own arps. 

In answer to the question can you program your own note transposition tables, chordal assignment tables, chord fold back tables and the other parameters for full chord recognition, the answer is no. And trust us even if you could, you wouldn’t want to , it is much more math than music.

Can you write an arp that plays back and is transposed to different keys by different root keys and follows your hand when you play a major, minor or 7th ?  Yes, easily and you can even add type mega voice type articulations to it easily.

That’s what we did in the DVD.

Re: Progamming your own arps

In answer to the question can you program your own note transposition tables, chordal assignment tables, chord fold back tables and the other parameters for full chord recognition, the answer is no. And trust us even if you could, you wouldn’t want to , it is much more math than music.

Love the math! I was always curious how chord recognition done. I’d really like to learn more about transposition/chordal assignment/chord fold back tables. Are there any articles on that anywhere?

Can you write an arp that plays back and is transposed to different keys by different root keys and follows your hand when you play a major, minor or 7th ? Yes, easily and you can even add type mega voice type articulations to it easily.

Now I’m confused - first I get the idea that one cannot program chord recognition, now you’re saying that I can write an arp that responds to maj, min or 7th…

Re: Progamming your own arps

Yeah - Im a little confused myself. But what I gather is that you cannot create your own arp PATTERNS - as far as the arpeggio ("note order” possibly an equally strong word here) BUT you can record the chords and chordal changes.

Re: Progamming your own arps

Haha, you think you are confused now! Hahaha /forums/images/icons/smile.gif alt=

Re: Progamming your own arps

LOL @ Acts 7, he wants to put Yamaha ouf of business in the future.
I still say wait until you can test the XS in person, you will get even more confused.
I am NOT going to try to figure out how the arps work, I will have enough time on my hands creating from not just the arps, but mixing and matching them, and even,,OH BOY,, that loop remix,,which will change everthing that is in the XS arps, by creating even more arps, the saving that new arp/
Sounds simple enough to me...LOL

Be careful what you ask for. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif alt=

Re: Progamming your own arps

Oh yeah, and one more thing.
All that mixing and matching with arps, one can already do that with the Motif ES.
Right now, I am playing around in Pattern mode, doing exactlly that,,mixing and matching arps.
Then I am remixing different pharses I first created.

Hey, an arp might go “ 1,2,3,4,, but by the time Ime through with it, it may go 1/2,1,2,1/2 ,4,,,depending on how long I hold the key or keys down.....JUST LIKE AN ARRANGER..LOL

No wonder I love Yamaha music products,,,,I don’t have to read the manuals...lol

Yamaha makes something simple sound way too complexed.
Someone said,"Stop annalizing,,lol the damn thing and just create music.” well not exactlly in those words,,,hey, he might have that copyrighted...lol

JUST MAKE HITS PEOPLE,,JUST CREATE,,,,,AND SHUT UP,,,oops soory.

Re: Progamming your own arps

Actually we just realized what part of the problem is. We always explain things in terms of how it works on a Motif or ES,and we just realized that neither Jote or ACTs7 have either of these products.  So we apologize because perhaps our explanations were a little to Motif centric.

It’s just a suggestion, but you might want to go to

[url=http://www.yamaha.co.jp/manual/english/index.php]http://www.yamaha.co.jp/manual/english/index.php [/url]

and download the Motif ES manual. 

There are three different ways to convert when making arps on the XS (and the ES)

Normal
The Arpeggio is played back using only the played note and its octave notes.

This is a traditional arp using only the sort order of notes in the data and notes played on the keyboard to determine the output.

Fixed
Playing any note(s) will trigger the same MIDI sequence data.

This is what is used for converting drum arps and mega voices noises that are not pitched so you don’t want them to be transposed.

OrgNotes (Original Notes)
Basically same as “Fixed” with the exception that the Arpeggio playback notes differ according to the played chord.

This looks at the notes in your arp data and modifies them using transposition tables depending on the chord you play. When creating the arp you set a root note so if the root note of what you played was D1 , you select D1 as the root note when converting.

You actually have 4 sequencer tracks available for conversion when you create an arp and you can select different types for the tracks.

So you can have one track with notes for the guitar part and use Original Note to convert, one track for the fret noises and slides and use fixed to convert.  This creates one arp that combines the two .  When you play a chord the guitar notes will transpose depending on the chord you play, but the fret noises will not be tranposed and always trigger the same fret noise at the right time. 

It’s very flexible and more important very easy to do.

What you can’t do on the ES or XS is change the algorithms for chord detection and transposition tables which is very complex.

It’s similar to the reverb effects . You can edit all the parameters for the reverb effects, but you can’t change or program the actual DSP algorithms for the reverb because those parameters are unbelievably complex and it’s easy to get unstable, unpleasant and unmusical results. 

Re: Progamming your own arps

I am really looking forward to those tutorial videos that show all of the ways XS can inspire. My creative well has been dry the past year working on my PC with VSTis and I need a different workflow or something....anything that might get some ideas flowing.

Re: Progamming your own arps

Athan,

Thank you for the explanation. Even though I never touched a piece of Motif gear I have a pretty decent knowledge about it - been following these forums when they were first launched in 2001 (or was it 2002?) - I’m a long-time Yamaha fan. It was that “maj, min, 7” part that confused me, paradoxically because you used plain English instead of Motif-related terminology /forums/images/icons/wink.gif alt= Nevertheless, thank you for your time taken to explain.

Also, BM said that “Certain Arpeggios have a random Sound Effect - that can add “stuff” to the performance… knocks, scrapes, etc.” - is this programmable/editable as well?

P.S. as I said before, I would really love to learn how chord recognition is implemented in keyboards (all those chordal tables you mentioned) - is this highly classified or are there any papers available which would at least describe the basics of it?