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Viewing topic "MO and Motif ES compatibility"

   
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Posted on: January 18, 2038 @ 02:14 PM
Bad_Mister
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I recently received an email message about two musicians working in collaboration - one with a MO the other with a Motif ES… when they would send each other files things would not load properly… You can do this… see below:

I wanted to offer this here so others could benefit:
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There is VOICE compatibility between the MO and Motif ES. This is true, however, they are not the same keyboard. So, the Voices are not in the same locations. What to do? This is what you can do so you both can load the same data and can work in nearly the same environment.

The thing that you both must learn to use is the MIX VOICE Bank (63/60). This Bank has some 256 locations. As the name implies it is a VOICE that has been edited and stored locally to the current MIX. This Voice gets saved with the SONG or with the PATTERN that you are working on. So it does not matter that the PRESETS are in different locations - the Voice data is saved in the SONG (.W7S) filw or the PATTERN (.W7) file.

A MIX VOICE is any normal Voice that you use in your MIXING setup. A “normal” Voice means a non-drum Kit Voice. The Drum Kits are exactly the same in both the MO and the Motif ES so you have nothing to worry about with drum kits.

But for each normal Voice that you use in a MIXING setup, you will want to store it to its MIX VOICE location (there are 16 provided for each SONG MIX and 16 for each PATTERN MIX… with a maximum of 256 total MIX VOICE locations.

Here is how it works: Say you have a PATTERN MIXING setup where you are using the electric piano sound “Kb: Vintage ‘74”

In the Motif ES this is found at location PRESET 1: 036 (C04) but in the MO this same Voice is found at location PRESET 1: 019 (B03)… and thus when you save your PATTERN and your buddy loads it up - the VOICE is going to be wrong.

What you need to do instead is the following - let’s say the Vintage ‘74 sound is in PART 01 in your Motif ES.
Press [MIXING]
Select PART 01 via Track Select [1]
Press [F5] VCE ED (Voice Edit) - This drops you into normal Voice edit even though you are still in a MIXING setup
Press [STORE]
The Motif ES will offer you an opportunity to store the “Vintage ‘74” Voice in MIXV location 01
Press [ENTER]
This will store the Voice locally with the SONG or PATTERN you are working in currently.

Repeat for each “normal” Voice in your MIXING setup. This way when your partner loads your SONG or PATTERN, they will also be loading the “normal” Voices you used… cool.

I’ve attached a demonstration Song that you can load into either the Motif ES or the MO - and you will see that it will play on either equally well. The only difference you two will experience is that the Motif ES has 8 simultaneous PARTS that can recall their Dual Insertion Effects, while the MO has only 3 simultaneous PARTS with Dual Insertion Effects active.

Once you get used to doing this you will find that you can work in complete compatibility. Plus any customization you do to the Voices can be transferred between units.

There is VOICE compatibility - not location compatibility. By storing your VOICES in the SONG data or in the PATTERN data (as MIX VOICES) you can easily have complete Voice compatibility.

The attached files are: “MO&MO_ES.W7S” and “MO&MO_ES.W8S”
This is in the SONG format. It contains 1 Song you can load it via the FILE TYPE = SONG into either the MO or the Motif ES.
They are contained in a ZIP file. Unzip them to your USB drive. You will see if you look at the MIXING setup, that all the normal VOICES have been saved to 63/60 bank locations -
Press [SONG]
Press [MIXNG]
Press [F2] VOICE

This song “In the Rain” is one of the Demo songs from the MO keyboard. It took me exactly 1 minute to convert it so that it will load into either the Motif ES or the MO. 

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 02, 2006 @ 09:35 PM
papaphoenix
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Re: MO and Motif ES compatibility

Good tips Bad_Mister, it’s exactly what i have say to a french user the last week.
Is there a way to done the same thing for S90 Es and Rack Es with multipart editor, i’m don’t using multipart editor (because i’m on midi junction with my others gears so i can’t use the usb mode).
I don’t have seen mixing edit voice possibility on multipart editor.
It would be a great idea to add this fonction on multipart editor for 2 people witch are working one on motif Es or Mo and other on S90 es or Rack Es in multi mode, and work with a midi file also of course.

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Posted on: November 03, 2006 @ 02:56 AM
Bad_Mister
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Re: MO and Motif ES compatibility

Current situation, the MIX VOICE is an entity that is entirely internal to the MO and the Motif ES. It allows the user (when working with the internal sequencer) to store an edited version of any normal VOICE in with the SONG or PATTERN data.

Rather than storing the USER VOICE to the normal USER 1 or USER 2 locations, you store the VOICE in with the data that gets saved with the ALL SONG and ALL PATTERN data. These MIX VOICES are local to the sequencer and do not appear in the regular USER Banks… you can copy them there if you wish - but they are to give the user an opportunity to customize a Voice specifically for the current Song or Pattern… without altering the USER 1 or USER 2 banks (which may have to support an evenings worth of sounds).

It is not necessary (although I understand your request) to have the MIX VOICE stored with the Multi-Part Editor. The reason is that each MULTI_PART file (.m*e) stores all of the normal 256 USER VOICE locations (that should be enough) - so the MIX VOICE is therefore not really an issue.

The MPE is designed for working with computer-based external sequencers (and since 256 locations seems to be plenty for any 1 composition… there is no reason to duplicate the MIX VOICE for the external sequencer).

The MPE and the VE can be used together to allow you to edit individual Voices while in a Multi setup. (But you store your VOICE to one of the internal USER 1 or USER 2 bank locations).

The VOICE EDITOR “Setup” can be directed to any individual PART by MIDI channel. Since the MPE can be synchronized as to the current internal USER voices in your synthesizer, you can launch the Voice Editor, set the MIDI channel and then edit the Voice that occupies the corresponding PART. But as mentioned you store it to a regular USER bank location.

See the POWER USER article: Studio Connections RECALL - It explains how this works for the MO, Motif ES, Motif-Rack, Motif-Rack ES, and S90 ES,

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Posted on: November 03, 2006 @ 03:38 AM
alogie
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Re: MO and Motif ES compatibility

It would be nice if the MPE could leave Mix Voices alone when it encounters them. Right now if I do a receive of a Mix which includes a Mix Voice, it resets that part to Full Grand.

John Melas’ Mix Editor will show that the Mix includes a Mix Voice, and allows you to modify that part in the same way as any other, but doesn’t show the Mix Voice name (because thats not available from the ES) or allow a Mix Voice to be selected for a part.

If the MPE were “non-destructive” in this way, it would allow people who want to use the MPE in conjunction with the MOtif (ES) sequencer to do so.

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Posted on: November 03, 2006 @ 04:15 AM
Bad_Mister
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Re: MO and Motif ES compatibility

Yes. But I doubt if that will happen soon. So in the meantime, it would be wise if you are using an external sequencer simply STORE your MIX VOICES back to the regular USER banks so that the MPE will be aware of them and can save them with the external sequencer (that is the goal).

This way when you IMPORT VOICE (which allows MPE to know what Voice Set is in your internal MO or Motif ES) it will have the correct names and locations.

Recognize that the MIX VOICE was developed for use with the Internal sequencer and whether or not you want to use it in conjunction with the external sequencer, its original purpose remains, for use with the internal sequencer. I highly recommend:

Press [MIXING]
Press [F5] VCE ED
Press [STORE]
Direct the MIX VOICE to a USER bank location
then use “IMPORT VOICE...” (in the MPE, so it registers where they are and can archive them with the others).

Alternatively, if you are working with both sequencers, if and when you have stored a VOICE in the Motif ES MIX VOICE bank, 63/60, you can treat it as an external synthesizer (same as you would the PLG150 boards, which by the way, do not show up in the MPE either… )

When using a MIX VOICE or a PLG as a part of your Multi setup, ... If you are using Cubase and have the script file that Tony “Tones” Escueta created for the Motif ES, it has the ability to select MIX VOICES and PLG150 bank Voices. 

So for example, if in PART01 you edited a Voice in the Motif ES, and stored it locally to a MIX V location and now want to transfer the data to Cubase… rather than use the MPE (which as we know does not address the MIX V bank) use the Track Inspector of Cubase to address this PART via the MOTIF ES DEVICE script.

Set the MIDI OUT = MOTIF ES DEVICE (set the MIDI DEVICE MANAGER so that the Motif ES Device is on the MIDI output port feeding the Motif ES)
Now you can use the script to keep track of the MIX VOICE location.

The same is true for PLG150 sounds, just treat them as external devices and use the Motif ES Device script. True, they are not a part of the internal tone generator MPE setup like the others, but the whole purpose of all of this is to have a method to transfer the data.

Yes, the MPE will simply read FULL GRAND… but it will “leave them alone” when you transmit and receive, to and from the MPE.

The weakness of using the MIX VOICE location is that, later (like tomorrow or the next day) you will have to load the SONG or PATTERN back to your Motif ES in order to address that MIX VOICE location… this is not as “total recall” as if you use the internal USER bank (as I originally suggest).

By moving your MIXV to a USER bank, when you store your Cubase SX3/ Cubase 4 file, and you activate Total Recall, everything comes back from the one Project file (which is the ultimate goal).

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Posted on: November 03, 2006 @ 05:01 AM
papaphoenix
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Re: MO and Motif ES compatibility

Thank you bad_mister and alogie, alogie if i understand well, so for friends witch have one a Motif Es and the other the rack Es the mix editor of J Melas is a good solution to exchange mixing data + voice edit data , without load a set of user voices (of course they need also a midi sequence, but they don’t need to have the same soft sequencer.

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Posted on: November 03, 2006 @ 10:16 AM
alogie
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Re: MO and Motif ES compatibility

Papaphoenix,

My understanding is that the saved files from John Melas’ Mix Editor do not contain the actual mix voice data, just the locations used for each part in the mix.

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Posted on: November 03, 2006 @ 08:06 PM
papaphoenix
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Re: MO and Motif ES compatibility

ok thank you alogie /forums/images/icons/wink.gif alt=

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Posted on: December 15, 2006 @ 01:14 PM
rafdana75
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Re: MO and Motif ES compatibility

Hi,
I was wondering whether I could copy over the Performance/s from MO to Motif ES?
If yes how should I go about it
Thanks,
Rafael

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Posted on: December 15, 2006 @ 01:35 PM
BradWeber
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Re: MO and Motif ES compatibility

Rafael,

Since the MO and Motif ES have compatible system exclusice command sets - the answer to your question is yes it is possible to transfer performances from a MO to a Motif ES, BUT you should remember that the data associated with a performance does not include the full information for the voices used in that performance, but rather simply pointers to the preset or user bank and program number of each of the voices that comprise the performance.

Since the voices and/or locations in which these voices are stored is different between the two instruments, unless the performances transfered use only user voices and the user voices used are in the same user bank locations in the two instruments, the performances will not be the same.

Assuming you have performances based on user voices that are the same in both instruments, you can simply connect the two instruments via a MIDI cable (MIDI OUT from the source to MIDI IN to the receiving instrument) and do a Bulk dump of the performance from one to the other.

Alternately, you could use a MIDI utility program (such as midiox - [url=http://www.midiox.com]http://www.midiox.com [/url] ) to bulk receive and save performances from one (via MIDI or USB) and then bulk transmit then to the other.

Regards,

Brad Weber

(One other consideration - the MO has only 3 dual insertion effects processors while the Motif ES has 8. So if you are transmitting a 4 part performance from the Motif ES to the MO, one of the parts cannot have its insertion effects enabled.)

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Posted on: December 16, 2006 @ 01:56 PM
rafdana75
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Re: MO and Motif ES compatibility

Thanks,

I really enjoyed jamming with the MO in the music store and though I could use some of the performance on my ES. So there is no way I can map the voices myself manually?

Rafael

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Posted on: December 16, 2006 @ 02:24 PM
BradWeber
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Re: MO and Motif ES compatibility

Of course. Once you’ve transfered the performances to the Motif ES, you can assign whatever voices you desire to each part of the performance.

Regards,

Brad Weber

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Posted on: January 04, 2007 @ 11:59 PM
GodChaserzdotcom
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Re: MO and Motif ES compatibility

I think i have gotten confused somewhere along with the reading.

So is it possible to have more than one sound on a track in pattern mode. To create a new sound or to layer more than one drum with a drum kit?

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Posted on: January 12, 2007 @ 02:57 AM
BradWeber
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Re: MO and Motif ES compatibility

Of course it is.

If you want to layer multiple parts of a song or pattern mix to respond to MIDI data sequenced or played on a particular MIDI track or channel, simply assign both parts to the same MIDI Receive channel (by setting the ReceiveCh parameter in the [SONG] (or [PATTERN])-->[MIXING]-->[EDIT]-->{part number ([1] - [16])}-->[F1] VOICE-->[SF2] MODE dialogs). For example to have parts 1 and 2 respond to data sent on MIDI channel 1, simply set both parts ReceiveCh parameter to 1.

Regards,

Brad Weber

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Posted on: March 08, 2007 @ 12:54 PM
cosak
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Re: MO and Motif ES compatibility

Hi, This is some nice info for people with both the motif and the MO. I only have the MO, though, and need to transfer files through a usb jump drive. Like the files i downloaded from tacman7 at Inlandvalley.net/mo. I load them into my mo and just get a whole bank of a non-touch sensative piano called init voice. So i’m obviously doing something wrong, and would greatly appreciate some help. Thanks (newbe)

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Posted on: March 08, 2007 @ 03:21 PM
BradWeber
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Re: MO and Motif ES compatibility

Tell us more about the file that you are loading and the data TYPE that you specify in the [FILE]-->[F3] LOAD dialog.

My guess is that the file you are loading only has voices in one of the USER voice banks and that the other bank is being loaded with “blank” voices (that default “INIT” voice).

With a little more information, we may be able to assist you further.

Regards,

Brad Weber

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