I respectfully request to Yamaha Corporation and the sound programmers there for the Motif ES to help Motif owners everywhere solve the problem of the disappointing Piano Sounds the Motif offers.

Motif ES owners in this forum state that they have to use other Yamaha products to get better piano sounds, such as stand alone P series keyboards, etc.  This shouldn’t have to be the case.  Other ES owners state they use other brand name keyboards for their piano sounds.  Why?  Because the Motif, obviously, isn’t strong enough in that area to make these people give up their old pianos.  The Motif/ES isn’t strong enough in the piano area to have this forum full of people writing in saying “WOW, this piano is incredible.  I’ve never heard anything like it!”

Instead, this forum is full of negative response to the ES pianos.

This forum is full of people searching for better pianos.  The Motifator website has other companies selling piano banks.

So, Yamaha:  Do us a favor:  Give us a piano sound/’piano bank that makes us change our minds/opinions.

Post it on the Motifator web site for us.  Give it to us.
We’ve spent THOUSANDS of dollars, all of us, on various Yamaha keyboards over the years.  Personally, myself, I own about 4 or 5, including the AWFUL S-80, which is one of the few keyboards I ever truly REGRETTED buying!
(That’s a sad thing to have to say, isn’t it?  But I truly think the S 80 is a dog!)

Yamaha Corporation:  Accept the challenge and give us a bank of MOTIF ES piano sounds that actually work ‘live’ and not just in the cozy confines of your design studio.

Don’t you read the forums?  Don’t you see how unhappy people are with the pianos/strings and brass of the Motif?

Do something about it, please?  Or I for one, can promise you that I’ve purchased my last Yamaha keyboard, period.

There’s nothing that special about the Motif/ES over any other product that makes it something we could not live without, or replace somehow.

To me, it just sounds like every other synth on the market. 
And it’s lame in some very important areas.  I tried recording a simple studio project the other day using a variety of string patches, and they just sounded so weak!  Incredible!

I have MUCH better string and brass samples from my Roland S760 sampler from 17 years ago!

That’s sad.  Come on Yamaha, get it together.  I got burned on the S80, and burned twice with this Motif ES.

In conclusion:  If the Motif ES is so great, simply give us the patches to prove it.  Give us the patches that make the P series owners WANT to use their Motif ES instead of the some other piano.  Give us the patches that make us stop using our other preferred pianos.

Solve the argument once and for all.
Blow us away with your piano sounds.
We’re waiting.

Re: Challenge to YAMAHA Corp/Motif ES designers.

Curious, were you unable to notice all this prior to buying an ES?

Personally, I played it before buying, but that may be impossible if you live in a remote area.

Re: Challenge to YAMAHA Corp/Motif ES designers.

Hi.

I use both a Motif8ES and a Motif Rack ES controlled by a master keyboard for live playing. I do a bit of touring, and have to rely on back line - always ordering a M8ES.

I also own a P90 - and do agree the MoES’s piano for some reason don’t sound as authentic as the P90 - even though it’s supposed to be the same sample.
I think there are two main problems with the piano sound in the ES:

1). That it doesn’t work well in mono. This is a miking problem in the actual sample session - the stereo sample has phase problems, summing L/R gives a weird result. Going out of the l/mono output of the Motif itself gives ( incorrectly ) just one side of the stereo image - equally useless.

My solution is to always bring a stereo setup for my monitoring.

2).  The piano sound has a big ‘smiley’ frequency curve.
Most live PA’s also have a ‘smiley’ - and if not, a lot of FOH guys are used to EQ’ing that way. Result is a even steeper curve - the core of the sound is missing.
The Kurzweil piano that you liked ( and which I can compare, as it is in my trusty K-2600XS ) is a far inferior sample - but they chose to leave the midrange in there - woks better live ( and there is a very useful mono version as well).

My solution has been, to create a patch with some EQ and compression.
The EQ’ing puts back the midrange in the sound - the comp takes care of some of the un-evenness.
I am quiete happy with this as my piano sound as long as I don’t have to rely on mono monitoring - which unfortunately happens a lot on back-line gigs.

You can check out how this sounds here:

[url=http://www.motifator.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=1]http://www.motifator.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=1 [/url],2,4&Board=Songs&Number=240574&page=&view=&sb=&o=&fpart=1&vc=1




-Kim

Re: Challenge to YAMAHA Corp/Motif ES designers.

Not a Yamaha designer or engineeer but perhaps I can throw in some points here.

First, piano sounds are incredibly subjective. How you play, what you play, what keyboard you play them on, what context you’re playing in… these all have a huge bearing on ‘your’ perception of a piano sound.

Personally, I’ve always liked the original Motif’s main piano (as does Stevie Wonder, it seems, who uses it extensively). However we sell a wide range of piano new sample banks in the MotifMart and different people love very different products.

You may not like the ES’s pianos but you have to commend the fact that additional piano samples can be loaded, plus the fact that so many do exist.

Yamaha is very committed to all-things-piano. I’ve personally watched how they make their acoustic pianos in the factory in Japan, plus spent time in their R & D labs in Tokyo, London and beyond.

To be honest I don’t think a post that basically lambasts their efforts and considerable expertise is going to give Yamaha engineers sleepless nights, and that you may just have to accept that how Yamaha produces most of their piano sounds just doesn’t suit your tastes.

No ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ in that; just how it is.

MM

Re: Challenge to YAMAHA Corp/Motif ES designers.

BRETE:

When you buy a car, they let you take it around the block, not across the country.

I played the ES vs. Triton Extreme and Roland Fantom for several days, comparing them for hours.  I read the reviews in major magazines and went back and compared yet some more. 
The reviews made the Motif sound like the best thing since slided bread.  The small stereo speakers in the store were very encouraging.  So I opted for the ES.  I put my faith in the latest/greatest Yamaha synth/sampler.

Like I’ve mentioned before, the ES pianos sound great IN THE STORE, through the little stereo speakers, in a nice quiet environment.  It’s quite a different story when you take the ES on stage and put it through the test.

So many ES owners, on this very forum, in fact, state they STILL use OTHER pianos after they buy the ES.  That says a lot.

So in a way, No, I did not get a chance to discover that the motif doesn’t cut it ‘live’ through a large PA, competing against a full band.  It’s thin, and it’s boxy. 

I mentioned in my Post about George Duke’s ES piano sounding awful ‘live’.  I thought:  If anyone’s ES piano is going to sound good, it will be Duke’s.  I was wrong.  When he played it, it sounded just as bad as mine.

I’ve been around a while, played in bands for 30 years and have heard and talked to more ‘pro’ piano players than a lot of guys out there.  When I say the ES piano sounded awful, trust me, it sounded awful.

I WANTED it to sound great.  I HOPED Duke’s piano would be incredible, so I could get excited and think there was hope for all of us.
But his piano sound was boxy, midranged, and very uneven up and down the keyboard.

I found it very, very disappointing.

Re: Challenge to YAMAHA Corp/Motif ES designers.

PIANOKIM:

Thanks for the reply.  Like you said, so often, you or the crowd, eventually ends up hearing things in mono at some point down the line.  So even if you sound great on stage, with your stereo monitors and reEQd piano patch, you’re still sending the signal to the house, which many times is not stereo, so the house is hearing the piano sound you are trying to avoid.

George Duke ran stereo, and the house pa was stereo.
And his piano sounded awful.  Totally bummed me out.

All I know is this:  This forum is full of guys complaining about the ES pianos.  This forum is full of guys who still use OTHER keyboards for their piano sounds, even after buying the motif es. 

So it’s not just me.
Personally, even though there are some real nice things about the Motif, I think, in general, it’s a very weak keyboard.

I think the pianos are definately weak.  The majority of the string samples are thin and pretty much cheesy sounding, and and the brass is thin and cheap.

Yes, guys post some nice recordings using these things, but, this in very controlled environments, mixing and stacking patches together, etc, etc…
I did a quick session for someone the other day, and I though “I’ll just use the ES strings, etc..” Well, I was very disappointed with the cheapness of the patches.

And I know it’s not just me!  All you have to do (YAMAHA!) is read the forum.  This forum is full of people who think the ES is full of cheap, disappointing sounds.

So what do I do now?
I’ll buy a few third party sound banks, do some of my own sampling, and a couple of plug in cards, and see if I can salvage the ES and turn it into a useable ‘live’ axe.

What’s disappointing to me is that I now have to continue my search for a real great piano sound, and that’s probably going to cost me another couple of thousand dollars.

I know one thing for CERTAIN:  My next keyboard will NOT be a Yamaha product. 
They’ve lost me as a customer, until they put out something that has us all going “WOW, did you hear THAT?”

I don’t hear anybody RAVING about the ES pianos.
Or should I say:  I don’t hear ALL OF US raving about the ES pianos.

I don’t care what anyone thinks:  My opinion is that the ES is a very weak keyboard. 

Even in controlled studio situations, the pianos, though they sound good, are still thin, and small.  You can’t really bang out a big rock number without noticing there is no thickness to the patches.
No depth.  No rich sustain.  No real brightness and power.

It just sort of ‘sounds’, and then goes away.
I think they just used bad piano samples, and did a poor job sampling on top of it.

I’ve said this before:  I have better, far better, string and brass patches from my Roland S760 sampler, and those are over 17 years old!!!!!
So yeah, to me...the ES is weak.

Re: Challenge to YAMAHA Corp/Motif ES designers.

May I object!

I went out for good piano sounds, so I listened to them first.

If piano is so important to you ....


Buying a car for the country side and testing it around the (city) block?


mmmm.


;JOOP!

Re: Challenge to YAMAHA Corp/Motif ES designers.

Actually I think the ES pianos sound great. But I’m not a pianist first and foremost, I’m a bassist.

And guess what...I find the bass sounds in the ES (like every other synth and sampler I have tried) to be not good enough to replace a real bass and I don’t use them.

I’d assume that drummers would like better drum sounds, organists would like better organ sounds, etc., etc.

PS I see plenty of touring pros using an ES for piano sounds.

Re: Challenge to YAMAHA Corp/Motif ES designers.

Rick - I don’t know, man.
You won’t find better pianos in the Korg or Roland variety - I know, I own the Triton Studio and the Fantom X, as well as a Kurzweil K-2600XS ( oh, and a K-2500XS, that I still haven’t sold - maybe you want it - it has that piano you like ).

The Motif - like the others - are not sold as, or meant to be, a digital piano.
It’s a work station with ‘a little bit of everything’ - what it has is in my opinion mostly better than ‘the other’ workstations ( it does have the largest ROM of any of these products ). In the studio I never rely on just the Motif or just one of the other boards. Most people mix it up, use several manufacturers products, blend in some expensive samples etc.
But for a one-box-does-it-all I think you will be hard pressed to find something overall better sounding than the Motif ES.

And in my post above I’m giving you a bit of a solution - try setting the freq on the Hi and Lo Mid to something that brings back the core of the sound - experiment with boosting a bit when you play live. The Master Eff can be set to a Multiband Comp, that you can toggle on/off - it will even out the sound a bit and put it more up front. This can all be done realtime while you play - or you can store a couple of variations a patches to call up.

If the piano sound is the main concern of yours - you went ahead and brought the wrong product: you don’t need a workstation - you need a digital piano. Hook that up to a sound module with whatever sounds you’re missing.
Just like if B3 sounds are your poison - you wouldn’t buy a Motif, but a dedicated B3 clone.
Did you look at the P-250 before you went ahead and bought the Motif?
( Or check out the new CP300/33. I heard, that they have a new sample made to work well in mono........! )
Yamaha is hardly to blame for you looking at the wrong product line for your needs.

The Motif will hold up to a full GigaB of your own samples - why not use some of those ‘17 year old S760 samples’ you keep rambling about? The 760 only had 32Mb maxed out, so you can easily fit something like 30 S-760’s worth of samples in the Motif. Should cover the essentials.

I got to admit, that I have about 6 or 7 different piano samples, that I load into my M8ES for live gigs - to give me variety. I still, however, end up using the internal piano for some things. I have a Steinway sample that works better for softer things like jazz, and another ( Kawai I think ) that’s cool when the piano needs to cut. Also the sample from the original Motif is sometimes the right thing ( this one came with your M*ES on a cd for you to use ).
Lately I have started using the rack version with a controller on some gigs - and since the rack doesn’t load samples, I have to rely solely on the internal piano sample. I do miss the other pianos, but I still get through the gigs fine - and don’t have to cart that big M8 around.

Yamaha seem to me to be sensible to the fact, that no two people seem to agree on what a ‘great piano sample’ sounds like.
The internal piano in the M*ES is much larger ( and I think ‘better’ ) than the original’s. A bunch of people have complained that the original Motif piano is ‘so much better’ - and, hey - Yamaha included that sample on a cd, so you can load it into ram if you think so - yet people still complain.
They also made, not one, but two different plugin boards with yet different pianos than any of the two standard ones - and you have a Gig of ram to load up your ‘GigaPiano’ or whatever, if this is still not enough.
Show me any other current or past product with this many choices.
So - even though I agree there is problems in the internal piano sample, I don’t think it’s fair to say, that Yamaha don’t care or they didn’t try to give everyone what they want.

If you’re using ‘some other piano’ like you said ‘everyone’ is doing - why don’t you just keep doing that, and sell your Motif? It’s still holding it’s value on the used market better than the other workstations - obviously ‘someone’ still likes it.

....And ‘No’ - I’m not affiliated with Yamaha.

-Kim

Re: Challenge to YAMAHA Corp/Motif ES designers.

No one complained more than I did about the Motif ES piano. I was brand new to the digital realm and did not understand EQ and all of that. I have a very good memory of my first live use with that piano - I thought I would die - it was horrible! Since that time I have made peace with the Motif ES piano by use of EQ as Kim points out. It is different in every room; and please be very attentive to Kim’s point about the FOH EQ in the ‘smile’ curve. A double whammy of pain - this is a very key point he made.

Do I prefer the P90’s piano? You bet!. What is missing in the workstation is the string resonance (or something like that anyway).

If you want a killer piano, try the S90ES. Now that piano is very good indeed. I would expect the Motif ES successor to contain this.

Bob

Re: Challenge to YAMAHA Corp/Motif ES designers.

I personally love the “Grand Piano” in the Yamaha Motif ES8 (for recording). I think it’s gorgeous. I don’t use it for live performance though.

I’ve only owned this machine for a little over a week, but I had the ES module before this.

I owned Korg, Oberheim, Roland, Ensoniq, etc and the Motif ES8 has a much better piano sound as far as I’m concerned.

I think it has everything to do with personal taste. I’ve seen pianists in a Steinway showroom going from one piano to the next until they find one they like.  I would have been happy with any one of them.

Best, John /forums/images/icons/smile.gif alt=

Re: Challenge to YAMAHA Corp/Motif ES designers.

> I’ve seen pianists in a Steinway showroom going from one
> piano to the next until they find one they like

You’ve just anticipated my comment. Even among real acoustic pianos, personal tastes will vary. I remember the endless discussions between the teachers at the academy, about the pros and cons of using the Bosendorfer or the Yamaha for their concert. One of my teachers told me to avoid using the mute pedal of the Steinway because unlike other pianos it damaged the timbre too much…

There’s also another factor to take in account : once the brain is used to one “favorite” piano sound, it seems to take this sound as a reference to appreciate others. Sometimes it may take some time to get free from this “reference” and to be able to appreciate the quality of a sound “as is”.

I experienced the same thing that many people experienced here : my early gigs with the ES8 were pityful and i even suspected there were some hardware problem with my gear. But i soon found out what the reason was : as i spent some nights at preparing my new sounds set for the next gig, i worked with the headphones, and obviously you can’t have the same perceived EQ than when you’re on stage. Second, what you hear when you’re alone will differ from what you’ll hear when playing along with the rest of the group.

I believe that the Motif ES’ default EQing is optimized to sound great at the music shop, where it’s precisely *there* that you’ll make your decision of buying it or not, compared to other keyboards and workstations. Then, you go home and you tailor your sounds to match your preferences, which is a good thing because doing this you have little chances to sound exactly the same that any of other ES owner. In many cases, the nice sounds you’ve made at home will need some extra tweaking when you’ll be rehearsing, and during some gigs you may tell to yourself not to forget to tweak this or this sound when you’ll go home. And you’ll validate this at the rehearsal and so on…

Another reason for which personal tastes vary, is that there are no two people whose ear’s frequency responses are the same, and growing older or being exposed to loud music will alter this frequency response even more.

Re-EQing the piano sounds is one good thing, tweaking the cutoff filter will probably give some good results that are not always reachable by simple EQing, but also changing the velocity curve to match your playing style may give you some extra satisfaction, because many frustration comes from the fact that what you get differs much from what you expect.

Hoping this helps,

—Julien

Re: Challenge to YAMAHA Corp/Motif ES designers.

I think one thing that original poster has missed is that many people buy additional voice libraries for the ES *because they can* i.e G.A.S. Its not that ES owners hate the preset voices (although some do), its more that they like to have choices (myself included).

I would suspect that if the ES could not load samples, many ES users would quite happily use the preset pianos. Those that really can’t stand the piano will buy a digital piano, and in the case of brass and strings, if people want really good strings and brass they’re going to go the softsynth route and buy something like EastWest orchestral stuff.

I don’t think anyone expects to be able to do “proper” orchestration of strings/brass etc. on the current generation of workstations.

My 0.02

Re: Challenge to YAMAHA Corp/Motif ES designers.

Hi Rick,

Wiser heads than me have chipped in here, but surely your, “Don’t you see how unhappy people are with the pianos/strings and brass of the Motif?” can _only_ be a subjective comment (and yes, ‘some’ people are unhappy).

I think it comes down to (what we in the UK call) ‘fit for the purpose’… if you want a Steinway sound, get a Steinway not a synth (there may come a time when a Piano Concerto at the Met will be played on a synth, but it ain’t now).

The ‘approximations’ are fit for my purpose (and many others) - mine is demo level (and that is a very high demand!)… I presume, when someone recognises the innate genius of my compositions and actually records my efforts /forums/images/icons/wink.gif alt=, they - if they want to use a piano - will use what is fit for _their_ purpose… could be a Steinway (might be a Yamaha).

There will come a day when, if we close our eyes (and pay no attention to the man behind the curtain) we may think we are listening to a Steinway and it’s actually a synth.  I think it’s pretty close with the ES (and I love, despite carping elsewhere here, the cello!) - imho I really feel that if you want your ‘piano sound’ closer to a Steinway sound _now_, buy a Steinway.  (I’ll also add you should try the PLG-150).

Regards,

David

Re: Challenge to YAMAHA Corp/Motif ES designers.

REPLY TO THE REPLIES:

I appreciate all of you guys chipping in.  I’ll address some of the main points some of you have made:

1.  Yes, “everything is subjective, and personal opinion.” Some people think the Stones belong in the same category as the Beatles, some people think MP3’s sound every bit as good as CDs, and some people think soft synths like the DXI for your PC sound as good as the original DX7s.  I’m not among that group.  I think the ES piano’s are weak, to say the least, and the strings are thin, and the saxes are an embarassment, and the brass over all has no power what so ever.  In the tiny confines of your recording area, yeah, sure, you can make some of those things work.  But ‘live’, forget it.
The ES has too many patches that simply sound like an old, outdated synth.  Sad, but true.


2.  “If you want a Steinway, buy a Steinway”.  And if you want a great sounding ‘live’ piano, quality strings and brass, DON’T buy an ES!  Fair enough?

Maybe I’m spoiled because the samples on my PC’s GIGASTUDIO (Vienna Library, etc) are so incredible, and the Roland S760 library of sounds was so well done that its hard for me to praise the ES?  No, that’s not the reason.  I judge the ES on its own merits, or lack of.
Don’t forget, disc sets like the Miroslav Strings, etc, and Petere Siedleczek orchestral series cost around $4,000 to $7,000 each!  Some of those samples are just mind blowing.

Thumb through those sax samples on your ES and tell me you’re proud of those!  I don’t think so.

3.  “It’s a workstation--wasn’t meant to be an all around great sounding keyboard”. 
Yamaha went out of its way to make this the biggest internal sample rom memory, and brags about 1700 patches, etc, depending on the ad you read.
Why couldn’t they use that sample rom more wisely?
If they could sit around the lab and hear that the ES90 or some of the P series pianos were better, why didn’t they include those samples on the Motif ES?  Why did they just let an inferior group of pianos be released?

I was under the impression, when I bought it, that with the ES being the ‘latest greatest’ thing from Yamaha, and that with 1700 patches and that huge sample rom, that MAYBE it would do the job ‘live’.  I didn’t like the Triton when I a/b’d them.
I chose the Motif, in the store, because to me, it sounded better.
‘Live’-- the ES is a huge letdown.  But I’ll go one step further than that.  Even in the studio, it is WEAK.
Those strings? Most of them, save one or two in certain situations only, are totally useless.  The saxes are a joke, a complete JOKE.  The brass sounds like it came off of some Casio or Radio Shack keyboard!  Truly, it does!

Wouldn’t you rather have Yamaha give us less sound fx, and less crappy sounding Indian instruments?  Wouldn’t it have been nice if they had said “Hmmm, what’s our best sounding piano...let’s put it in the ES!”

And I don’t buy the arguments that it’s ‘ok for demos’ and therefore the sounds on the ES are justified.

Surely you guys can hear the brilliance, the power, the harmonic overtones that are missing on the ES Pianos.
When you strike a low note, in octaves, it just sits there.
It’s thin.  There’s no power, no brilliance.  It’s just a thin sample with no character that simply dies away way too quickly, and with no vibrance.

Yes, the ‘sound’ of the inital sample, or the ‘sound’ or ‘apparent sound’ of the piano patches, at low volume, in headphones, in the studio, in the store, sound pretty realistic.
They fooled me--I bought the thing.
But they just don’t sound that way ‘live’.

When you sit a DX right next to the ES and compare, you can clearly hear why samples often fall short of the real deal.
They simply can’t capture all of the naturally occuring harmonic interplay that’s happening with the real keyboard.

When you sample, you are ‘freezing’ one small part of that harmonic evolution.  That’s why the ES sounds so poorly.
The sampling was done poorly.  The source samples were weak.  The people doing the sampling obviously didn’t compare their work to previous work on the market place, or even their own P series etc.  Or, they just didn’t care.

I find many of the sounds of the ES embarassing.  And those of you who are knocking me need just need to flip through this forum for a while and see there is much support out there for my arguments.

I think Yamaha could’ve done SO much more with the internal sample rom.  I find it very disappointing.

When George Duke’s Motif ES Piano sounds as dreadful as it did, and when I walked out of there thinking “Wow, how disappointing was that?”, it’s hard for me to wave the ES banner and proclaim it some great savior of keyboards.

Now, I’m going to have to go out and find something else to use as a Piano ‘live’, because its the main instrument I need all night long.  I will eventually buy enough third party sounds and plug ins to ‘salvage’ the ES into some useable ‘synth’.

But I won’t be able to retire my S760, which was one of my goals in purchasing the ES.  It is far superior to the ES when it comes to strings and brass, and woodwinds.

I’m going to buy some additional ram so that I can eventually transfer my favorite S760 samples to the Motif, and if I’m happy with the results, then I’ll retire the S760.  But it won’t be because the Motif sounds great, it will be because the Motif is playing back the better Roland and Gigastudio samples. 

Sure would’ve been nice if Yamaha just would’ve given us better samples to start off with, huh?

And lastly:  “Yamaha doesn’t care what we think.  They are not losing any sleep over posts like these!”

Well, maybe not.  But they’ve lost a customer in me.  And I don’t care what business you’re in, you don’t want negative opinions of your work.  That’s the bottom line.
So does it affect them? Yes it does! 

And i’ll tell you something else, it depends on who is doing the complaining.  If Stevie Wonder said in an interview in a major keyboard magazine “I really think Yamaha stuff sucks, I don’t buy it anymore” then Yamaha would freak.

We’re small fish, right now.  But we might not be small fish in a few years.  I think Yamaha would be wise to listen to all of its customers and weigh the complaints.

For example:  Bad Mister thinks there’s nothing wrong with the KN4 ‘tempo’ knob setting being unable to be moved from 100 BMP to 101 or 102 BMP.  I think that’s ridiculous.
When you adjust your tempo, it’s going to be ever so slightly, to dial it in.  You don’t write a song/sequence at 100 BPM, and then decide to alter it to 5 BPM!  We need a KN4 knob that will allow you to change your BMP by 1 or 2.  We don’t need to increase it 150!  Makes sense to me.
Bad Mister said it was not important, Yamaha had to cut some corners. 

They certainly did. 
They also cut a lot of corners in the internal sample rom department. 

Bottom line:  Why do you want a ‘workstation’ that gives you crappy sounds to ‘work’ with?
Great arpeggiator features!  Great recording possibilities.
But, you have to record with THOSE SAXES!
No thanks.

My search for a better ‘live’ keyboard continues.
The ES was not the answer.

I hope you guys enjoy yours!
When the next Yamaha product comes out, and the ES quickly becomes a dinosaur, you’ll understand what I’m saying.

The mark of a great keyboard is that it sticks around long after other things come out after it.
Where is ther S80 now?  In the keyboard landfill, where it belongs.  The ES is not far behind.

It won’t be long before someone finally does what the ES ‘tried’ to do, and gets it right.  No one, 7-10 years from now, will be talking about that ‘classic sound of the es”

The ES has no originality, brings nothing NEW to the musical table, and has no endearing qualities that will make it a stape in the music world.

The ES samples other classic keyboards!  That sums it up the best, doesn’t it?  The ES is so busy trying to ‘sample’ and copy the other great keyboards, it has no personallity of its own.  The ES is an imitator, not an innovator.

And that’s why it will have a short life span.

No one is going to be saying, in a couple of years:  “How can I get that great sax sound that was on the ES?”

No, my friends:  The Stones simply do not belong in the same category as the Beatles.  And the ES is a sampling imposter.  A follower, not a leader.














































I didn’t buy the ES for the workstation part.  I don’t sequence things and I record on my PC.  I wanted to replace the S760 and a couple of other keyboards with a newer, great sounding board that would allow me to downsize my stage rig.















3. 



While it is true that some of you bought your ES for ‘demo’ purposes, some of us play ‘live’, for a living.  The fact that so many of you use your old or other pianos even after buying the ES is significant.




As far as the S760 sampler goes:  I DO use it!  I own three of them and I use one ‘live’ every night.  I’ll buy more off of ebay in the future because they DO sound incredible.

Re: Challenge to YAMAHA Corp/Motif ES designers.

A little cheese with your..... oh never mind. /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif alt=

You don’t like it. We get it. Sell it. Move on.