I just got a Motif 6, and would like to add some piano sounds.  What are people’s current feelings on the relative merits of these two boards?  (Freel free to point me to a thread if this has already been covered ad nauseum.  Haven’t been able to find a straight comparison in my own searches.)

Thanks, Tim

Re: PLG150-PF vs PLG150-AP

Tim,

Check out these search results . (I simply searched All Forums, All Dates for “PLG150-PF” and “PLG150-AP”. You might want to search just for one or the other.)

Regards,

Brad Weber

Re: PLG150-PF vs PLG150-AP

A simple summary might also read something like this:

The PF features a wide range of piano sounds including some good rhodes. Its main Piano sound is not bad in comparison to the Mo classic.

The AP board is an attempt to get another high quality piano onto a PLG card and as such features mainly piano sounds.

Both are single part boards.

However, have you had a look at [url=http://www.yamahasynth.com]http://www.yamahasynth.com [/url] at the PLG pages to see what the spec sheets say?

Ultimately the only way to know if one is the right thing for you is to hear it.

Cheers

Re: PLG150-PF vs PLG150-AP

Great, thanks for the help. Tim

Re: PLG150-PF vs PLG150-AP

Essentially I am wondering whether the PLG 150 AP is sample-only (although very good samples) like the CP series, or whether it is the sample/synthesis mix more characteristic of the P series.  Does anybody know about this for a fact?

Re: PLG150-PF vs PLG150-AP

The PLG150-PF and the PLG150-AP are both sample playback technology only. The P-series pianos and the CP series pianos are sample playback technology only.

Re: PLG150-PF vs PLG150-AP

OK, let me phrase this another way - maybe a Senior Product Specialist can help me.

The PF and P series, from the PF85 (which I owned), the TX1P (which I owned), the P100 (which I owned), the P150 (which I owned), the P50M (which I now own), and I presume the P200 and P250, sound as though they are using one approach to “sound-making” whatever you want to call it.  The CP33 (which I now own) sounds different.  I thought I heard years ago that the samples in the P series were augmented by some kind of synthesis, is that correct?

Further, I heard that the TX1P was analogous to a PF85 and the P50M was analogous to a P150, is that correct?

But the main question that I am trying find a answer for now is:  What if anything are the PLG150-PF and PLG150-AP boards analogous to, respectively?  If not exactly the same as some other keyboard or module, to what model is each board closest in terms of sound and/or wave architecture?

Let me tell you why I am asking:  I liked the P100 / P150 / P50M, and the PF85 / TX1P would be my second choice over something that is trying to “capture” a grand, no matter what the quality of the capture or the quality of the grand is.  Please don’t get distracted by how this might differ from your opinion, I am just trying to tell you what I am looking for.  So whichever of these boards comes the closest soundwise to a P100 / P150 / P50M, that is the one that I am looking for. 

The PLG150-PF is almost unfindable, and I have not yet found a music store that even has the commonly available PLG150-AP installed in something so I can go hear it.  Therefore I need to know as much about the boards as possible, so I can either buy the PLG150-AP unheard, or start a major quest to find a PLG150-PF.

So, again, does someone know about these boards FOR A FACT?

Re: PLG150-PF vs PLG150-AP

All the products that you mention are sample playback technology.

The TX1P and the PF85 came out in 1987 and represent what professional sampling could do back in those days. The TX1P was the first rack mount sample playback Piano module from Yamaha. The PF85 was the first in the line of black slab pianos built for the stage.  It is at the head of the line that type of piano that included the PF100 and later the P150 (1995) and later the P200 (1998) and the P250 (2002) which is now the CP300 (2006)… all represent the same sample playback technology and each represents a next generation of the chip. So the sound, technique and the samples are new in each model. But they all use Yamaha proprietary method of storing wave data (Advanced Wave Memory).

The P50-m (1996) was a half rack module developed to fulfill a need in the market for a small (professional) piano for traveling musicians who did not want to take the big slab piano (usually around 60lbs or more).

The reason you don’t find the PLG150-PF (1999) or the PLG150-AP (2004) is that many years have past since they were new. Had you been looking for these back in the year of their release you would have been more likely (no guarantee) but at least more likely to have run into them in stores.

These are not complete products - as you know they are plugin boards that require a host product. The sampling technology is more than a decade beyond the PF85 and therefore will sound quite different.

If you are looking for a specific sound, and piano sound is a very personal thing… you will have to play the sounds.. nothing any one says (not even a Senior Product Specialist, like me) can decide for you what is the right sound.

But to the facts - none of the products you mention are a combination of technologies, none are augmented by some kind of synthesis… Yamaha as a proprietary way in which we prepare audio samples - that is very technical and very secret but it does not include augmenting the audio with any kind of synthesis. We simply called it Advanced Wave Memory… and even if there were technical information available it would still all come down to the individual playing, listening, interacting and deciding that they enjoy the sound…

Part of the magic of the P-series, PF-series and CP-series is how they are matched (action/sound/speaker system)… that is part of the experience. The modules are a little different because the unknown is the keyboard controlling them - and that has a good deal to do with the experience of playing it.

Anyway long story short… there is no shortcut to actually playing the piano. Like trying on shoes, only you will know when they are right for YOU…

Re: PLG150-PF vs PLG150-AP

I have a CP300 and used to have a PLG150-PF installed in a Mo8.

IMHO, the PLG board only does an adequate job of giving you another piano - one that isn’t any better than “power grand”.  In no way does it even belong in the same league as a CP.

There isn’t the velocity switching or other advanced features that you get with the newer generations of Motif.

I wouldn’t spend the money again on the PF board.

Hope that is helpful to you.

Re: PLG150-PF vs PLG150-AP

I have another somewhat related question. Is the PLG-150-AP a different/better piano sample than the one found in the S90?

Re: PLG150-PF vs PLG150-AP

The PLG board (retailed around $350), the CP retails for around $2400...If you saw a pile of dollars, one with 350 in it and one with 2400 in it - let me ask you: Which one would you pick up?  The CP is a complete piano designed from the ground up to be a no compromise stage piano. The PLG board is a convenience and is an add-on to a specific product group. It is a matter of which one fits your needs for YOUR particular application. There is no better or worse, but my question stands, all things being equal which pile of dollars would you pick up?

Is the PLG-150-AP a different/better piano sample than the one found in the S90?

Re: PLG150-PF vs PLG150-AP

Tim, I’ve heard demos of both, and the AP board is by far the best in my oppinion.  Since you have a Motif Classic, you may want to try getting used to the piano sound in it.  In my oppinion, it’s one of the best piano sounds Yamaha ever put into a workstation.  To my ears, it sounds identical to the piano in my Tyros2, which is excelent in my oppinion.  If you meant to say you have an ES instead of a Classic, I don’t think the pianoes on the ES are near as good as those on the Classic, but if you EQ them just right, you can get them sounding pretty good.  Back to the PLG boards, it may be good if you install both a PF and an AP board, because they’ll both give you extra polyphony, and if you have a Classic Motif, you’ll need it.

Re: PLG150-PF vs PLG150-AP

So, just to clarify the comment on the S90, is the S90 piano sample the same one as the PLG150-AP or not?

Re: PLG150-PF vs PLG150-AP

Not.
The S90 piano is a sample of a Yamaha acoustic Grand called the S700 - which is a handcrafted limited edition piano.

The PLG150-AP piano is a sample of a Yamaha acoustic Grand called the CFIII - world renowned concert piano.

Definitely different pianos, definitely different samples.

Re: PLG150-PF vs PLG150-AP

Thanks for the clarification.