Re: PLG150-AP - hands on review

Hey ThePro,

Thanks for re-review.

Now everything sounds quite different. I have S90 and really hope to sounds as good as in your ES8.

I wonder one thing. How close PLG150-AP is to real Yamaha CF3?

BTW, anyone had a chance to test AP in S90, yet?

Waga

Re: PLG150-AP - hands on review

To Waga:

There’s not a sampled piano in existence that can hold a candle to the real thing.  I was reminded of that this weekend when I played both a C7 and a CFIIIS at the local Yamaha dealer.  Mind-blowingly great pianos.  The sound of the CFIIIS is sublime.  I’m sold on this board if it captures even a shade of the greatness of this wonderful piano.

Re: PLG150-AP - hands on review

I’ll second the real piano.

I go for weeks in my little home studio playing the Motif with samples, Then I walk upstairs and play the real thing and WOW.  No comparison.

Even spending $3000 on a used really good upright is better than buying 10 Really huge piano samples, for $200 each. (Some are more)

Just can’t carry the real piano around and most gigging locations don’t have the real thing either /forums/images/icons/frown.gif alt= That’s why all these samples, and Such.

Jim

Re: PLG150-AP - hands on review

One of the reasons for lack of satisfaction when playing the sampled thing is actuall lack of volume. You need to monitor a piano at rock n roll volumes in order to get the feel of the real thing - which when you are sat at is way loud /forums/images/icons/smile.gif alt=

Cheers

Re: PLG150-AP - hands on review

My two cents:  The shortcomings of sampled pianos are an immediately obvious one (or two).  Especially when playing a large grand piano (after all we are talking about grand piano samples), the response to the player and listeners is a ‘visceral’ one.  When you play a large grand of good quality (how about a Steinway 9’, for example) in the lower octaves you can hear and feel the rolling growth of overtones and the strings vibrating as the sound flows through the atmosphere.  It’s visceral.  The piano is almost alive.  The senses are aroused in a three dimensional way.  Even an upright piano has overtones and such.

While Yamaha does have the clp line (soundboard resonance, etc.) have not found it interesting in the least.  Others have also said that in the P250, the benefit of resonant samples, or what have you, is almost impossible to notice.

But, I think sampling in that regard is on the right track.  While there are definite issues of processing power, memory and cost that keep better sounds from consumers, I believe that someday the visceral experience of playing a large grand piano will be duplicated.  Computer power, some genius ideas and aural illussions will come together and bridge the gap that is now missing from piano sampling.  It eventually all comes down to how the human brain perceives sound.  The visceral experience of playing a large grand can be duplicated - resonance, pedal resonance and all.  It may require the delicate placement of speakers, time delay, enormous processing power and memory - but there is no doubt that it can be duplicated.  Even if we are ‘tricked’ into perceiving that the sound is accurate - that’s part of the science.

In the mean time, today’s sampled pianos are often better, more inspiring and condusive to enjoyment than many real pianos.  So, they have already been a blazing success despite their shortcomings.  The final frontier, the visceral three dimensional feelings, are only as far away as science and invention.

Re: PLG150-AP - hands on review

I’m a bit confused about loading the voice data.  I hooked my ES up to the computer and attempted to download the data through the midi files as stated in the manual with no luck.  Is there an alternate method.  The AP card is in slot #1, the ES recognizes the card and I am able to play the piano sounds.  Does the voice data change the sounds with EQ, effects, filters, etc.  If so, I have to get the voice data loaded.

Thanks in advance for any information.

Kenny

Re: PLG150-AP - hands on review

“Which brings up my second point: Yamaha clearly markets the PLG150-AP board for use with the Yamaha 9000 Pro keyboard. The AP board will only play raw data in the 9000 Pro and it’s now obvious that your people knew this in advance, re: Bad Mister’s comments above. Yamaha is conducting false and deceptive advertising in conjunction with the PLG150-AP… if you KNOW the PLG150-AP won’t work properly in the 9000 Pro but you advertise it for use with this instrument anyway, you are misleading customers to the point of legal liability. Since I rely on my 9000 Pro on stage and was looking forward to adding the triple-strike piano you promised, I can’t tell you how angry this makes me. Hopefully this incident will give buyers reason to question your company’s credibility when it comes to supporting your instruments. “

I agree completely.  Yamaha is alienating the 9000 Pro users when it comes to support, but now they’ve taken it to the next level.  They’re bending the users over and feeding it to them relentlessly.  There is no excuse for this intentional deception by advertising the PLG150-AP as compatible with the 9000 Pro.  LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES.

Smells bad, Yamaha.. Smells real bad.

Re: PLG150-AP - hands on review

Is there any way to load voice data without a computor in the ES ?

Re: PLG150-AP - hands on review

If you bought the 150 under the guise that it work work equally well with your yamaha 9000 as any of the other mentioned compatible keyboards and it does not...you should demand a refund from whence it came.  If those folks balk, you should speak to yamaha US directly (I’m sure they have contact info on their webpage).  Just explain in polite terms how you believed your were mislead.  I expect that they will be happy to make arrangements (perhaps with the folks that sold you the AP150 and refund your purchase.

You make a fair argument but it’s up to you to demand satisfaction....not to mention letting them now be aware that not completely representing the usefulness of the product will cost them in contested charges of selected purchases.

Re: PLG150-AP - hands on review

There’s no doubt that I bought the PLG150-AP under the false impression that it would sound good in my 9000 Pro(s), and I’m sure I have a good case for demanding a refund. But I also own a Motif ES 8 and the AP sounds just fine in it so I intend to keep the AP card for use in my Mo. I just won’t be buying more PLG150-AP’s for my two 9000 Pro’s as I’d intended (they both have the old PLG150-PF’s in them currently, which aren’t triple-strike pianos but they sure sound better in my 9000 Pro than the PLG150-AP did).

It’s still disturbing that Yamaha is willing to sell the PLG150-AP as a 9000 Pro accessory when it doesn’t include the voice data to make it sound good within the 9000 Pro’s architecture. Didn’t they know that 9000 Pro owners would be angry once they found out that the AP board won’t sound as good in their host instruments as promised in the AP’s press releases? That’s irresponsible. My confidence in Yamaha’s products and integrity is clearly shaken, and I’m not as likely to pre-order anything in the future unless I know that the product in question is more than just “compatible” with my existing instruments.

Re: PLG150-AP - hands on review

Yamaha deserves to take some public heat on this one.  Blatent false advertising.... There’s going to be a lot of pissed off 9000 Pro users out there. 

False advertising, misleading advertising, half-true advertising, whatever you want to call it, only leads to pissed-off customers, and a negative word-of-mouth for the advertiser. I just don’t see why it’s necessary to do that. They could have easily said

“compatible with Motif, MotifES, 9000Pro*, etc., etc.”

Then down below in fine print:

* only partially supported in 9000Pro. More details at [url=http://www.yamaha.moredetailsaboutwhatever.com]http://www.yamaha.moredetailsaboutwhatever.com [/url]

Re: PLG150-AP - hands on review

Does anyone know how PLG150-AP sounds comparing it to the P250 piano sound?

Waga

Re: PLG150-AP - hands on review

In the Sounds forum, I asked about the qualitative reduction in the ES Full Grand sound when going from Voice to Song mode (see thread) . The responses were varied, some very helpful, other less so.

Question: does the PLG150AP piano suffer the same qualitative reduction when inserted as a voice in Song mode?

Re: PLG150-AP - hands on review

Has anyone tried the PLG150AP in the classic Motif?  How does it compare to the Grand Piano in the Motif? 

Ed

Re: PLG150-AP - hands on review

I believe if you go to Mobros.org website, there is a neat little program that works with the Motif ES, and it makes your Voice sound in Song or pattern mode, exactly the way it sounds in Voice mode. I dont have it with me right now, but I think you might wanna check it out.