All of the Motif’s Hammond B3 sounds are sampled.  Yamaha should REALLY consider coming out with a Vintage Keys expansion card which features a modelled tonewheel organ engine like Kurzweil’s KB3 engine.  It just gives you a much better sound than sampled organs and more versatility.

In addition, they should include some really dynamic high quality Rhodes and electric piano samples like those from Scarbee (who makes the best software Rhodes emulation available on any synth). 

I guarantee you that this would be a big seller because I already know at least 5 Motif owners who said they would buy it without question.

Instead of investing all of their energy in multiple acoustic piano expansions… why doesn’t Yamaha create a vintage keys expansion with a modelled tonewheel organ like those found on all of the dedicated Hammond clones like the Nord Electro, Korg CX-3 etc??

If Yamaha developed that expansion card as well as a Virtual Analog card which was more substantial than the AN card, they would have the greatest synth ever made.  5 note polyphony on the AN card is just dissapointing and it’s older technology.  The newer VA’s like the Alesis Ion have at least 8 note poly and most others have 16 and even 24 note.

Another thing that I thought of was to create a card which combined VL and AN to be in competition with the MOSS card for the Korg Triton.

PLEASE develop these cards Yamaha! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif alt= You will dominate the synth market if you do.

Re: Yamaha, PLEASE create a modelled organ expansion!!

I do agree!

I own S90 and do plan to purchase PLG150-AP for Christmas. If Yamaha come out with new Vintage Keys expansion card and new type of AN card with more polyphony, these cards would be in my S90, period.

I think S90, with all these cards, would be a BEAST!!!

I hope my wife approve this message!

Yamaha, I hope you listen!

Best,

Waga

Re: Yamaha, PLEASE create a modelled organ expansion!!

Put me on the list....I’d even pre-order it!!!!

That’s puttin’ my money where my mouth is!

Re: Yamaha, PLEASE create a modelled organ expansion!!

Tell me about it. Ive just purchased a VK8m for $850 for my organ sounds.

Re: Yamaha, PLEASE create a modelled organ expansion!!

I use the PLG 150 DX Board for my Hammond Sounds.  The FM modelling method gives a reall tonewheel feel (and some dynamics which you dont get on a Hammond) There are loads of sound banks in SYSEX format on the NET.  I used the DX Manager Softzare (see the other postings on this) to create a soundbank of my favourites from the net SYSEX files, and sent it to my PLG Card, hosted in an S90.  You can attach the ‘board voices’ to a Motif/S90 Plug in voice to use the synth hosted effects on top of the DX sounds.

Re: Yamaha, PLEASE create a modelled organ expansion!!

Yeah, but FM still does not sound as good as a dedicated tonewheel modelling card.

Basically, Yamaha could very easily create an expansion which features an engine much like the KB3 engine on the Kurzweil or the same type of organ tone generator that’s found in the Nord Electro, Hammond XK2 and all of the other Hammond clones.

Those are not sample based organs.  The advantage to going with modelled B3 instead of samples is that you have much more flexibility in the sound.  With samples, you can only get a few different drawbar registrations at one time because there are MILLIONS of possible drawbar combinations on a real organ and therefore you would need MILLIONS of samples.

With a modelled tonewheel organ, you don’t need samples and you can set algorhythms to MODEL those drawbar settings.  You also usually get a much fatter more full sound with a modelled organ.

EVERYONE that I’ve mentioned this idea to have said that they would buy it in a heartbeat.  Especially if it also included high quality Rhodes, Clavinet and Wurlitzer samples on it as well. 

To REALLY make it the greatest expansion of all time, they should also add FDSP to it to get that flexibility in emulating pickup settings etc.

If Yamaha came up with this card to compliment the other expansions out there, they would have the most comprehensive workstation EVER CREATED!!! 

Even the Kurzweil K2600 series workstations have a modelled tonewheel organ engine (KB3).  There is no reason why Yamaha couldn’t develop this for the Motif.

PLEASE forward this along to Yamaha if you have the ability to do so!!

Re: Yamaha, PLEASE create a modelled organ expansion!!

Up for hope that someone at Yamaha sees this.

I was playing with the ES’s Hammond patches last night and they’re good, but I just cannot get satisfactory clarity and sampled organ sounds have a harder time cutting through a mix.

Modelled tonewheel organs are the way to go.  It seems like it should not be tough for Yamaha to develop such a thing.  PLEASE! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif alt=

Also, make it worthwhile by making it a complete vintage electric piano expansion with large Rhodes, Clav and Wurlitzer samples and most importantly.. FDSP synthesis!!

Re: Yamaha, PLEASE create a modelled organ expansion!!

Remember PLG150 cards have a maximum compressed sample capacity of 16MB, which seems to be approx 29MB uncompressed, so it probably wouldn’t really be feasible to put large samples of Rhodes, Clavs & Wurlis on the same board.

Equally I don’t think it would be possible to have a modelled organ and samples on the same board. I get the impression that a card is either a modelling card, or a sample playback card, but not both.

Just a couple of thoughts.

Re: Yamaha, PLEASE create a modelled organ expansion!!

I still fail to see the usefulness of modeled toenwheel organ without the physical controllers. That means organ action (entirely different from synth action or piano action) and drawbars. Nord Electro did it their own way and some say they have adjusted to the button approach (I would think this takes much more practice as there’s no “resistance” or inherent “feel” as you “move” a drawbar “in” or “out”, and lots of room for error in the heat of a gig). But they did do a bang-up job of hair-trigger organ action. As do ALL of the current models of virtual organs (Roland VK8, Hammond XT III or whatever it’s called, rereleased Korg CX3, etc.). Unless you’re someone who picks a setting and never changes it while playing, and doesn’t take advantage of organ-specific action, modeled tonewheels on a PLG will be an improvement over sampling but equivalent to using the VL card without a wind synth or breath controller.

Re: Yamaha, PLEASE create a modelled organ expansion!!

Lachoza,
I find your comments interesting about FM not being able to do Hammond tonewheel sounds as good as a tonewheel “modeler” module. I have tons of great Hammond sounds on both my DX7IIFD and my SY77, replicating every type of Hammond sound I have ever heard. And I have a Hammond C3 sitting here for comparison, but I usually choose to use the SY sounds through a Leslie for convenience. If someone has only heard “stock” FM Hammond patches, they have not heard what FM is truly capable of. I only hope that when I get my ES I can learn how to edit those organ patches to sound as good, otherwise I’ll simply play those parts on the SY.
Clyde

Re: Yamaha, PLEASE create a modelled organ expansi

I’ve posted a bunch of organ samples recently (search for “Clonewheel files"). There’s one for each key, which means that it captures the tuning accurately (Hammond is not exactly equal temperament).
It’s not perfect, but the samples kick ass when played from my Kurzweil.

-Markus

Re: Yamaha, PLEASE create a modelled organ expansi

Remember PLG150 cards have a maximum compressed sample capacity of 16MB, which seems to be approx 29MB uncompressed, so it probably wouldn’t really be feasible to put large samples of Rhodes, Clavs & Wurlis on the same board.

Equally I don’t think it would be possible to have a modelled organ and samples on the same board. I get the impression that a card is either a modelling card, or a sample playback card, but not both.

Just a couple of thoughts.

Points noted.  I didn’t realize that there was such a memory constraint on the PLG cards.  What if they included the engine on the card, and then gave you a CD with the better EP samples to be loaded into your onboard memory?

How much can you expand the Motif ES FLASH memory?  In other words, the memory which retains information even when you shut it off? 

If anything, I think that Yamaha would be wise to come up with a FDSP expansion card to maximize what you can do with the Rhodes and EP samples which come in the Motif’s stock memory.  On the EX series Yamahas, the FDSP is what MADE the EPs.

I see what you mean about the lack of drawbars on the Motif being a problem for the modelled Hammond voices, but I just think you would still get a much thicker realistic sound with a modelled tonewheel organ because I find the onboard Hammond samples to be OK, but they’re very thin in a mix.  Especially the FULL ORGAN settings like “Vintage C3” etc.  They have no balls in the upper registers.

As far as FM organ sounds, I will need to hear more samples of those because to be honest, I haven’t heard very many FM Hammond emulations.  Are they really THAT good?  Is the DX expansion card capable of getting that rich “whistle” that you get from the higher drawbars?  How about in the way of that woody knocking percussion sound?

Maybe I should just get a Voce V5 module for my organ sounds?

All in all, I think that Yamaha could still come up with some more interesting things than what they have soo far in the way of PLG cards.  They should make something like Korg’s MOSS engine.  Or maybe a Granular Synthesis engine.  Or some unique type of synthesis. 

It just seems like they’re revamping their OLD ideas instead of making new ones.  Instead of an expansion like an FS1R, we get the DX7.  Instead of a virtual analog card which could compete with the likes of the Alesis Ion, we get the really old AN1X technology with only 5 note poly.  I know you can get 2 or 3 AN cards to get more poly, but then you waste all of your PLG slots.

Re: Yamaha, PLEASE create a modelled organ expansi

I think the market for a modeled organ expansion board is extremely small and if I were Yamaha I wouldn’t consider it worth the investment in hardware production.

Emagic’s EVB3, NI’s B4 and Spectrasonics-distributed “Charlie” cover the software end of things. You can run VST plug-ins like B4 using Muse Research’s hardware rack unit Receptor, and Manifold Labs Plugzilla. That and a controller keyboard and you’re there.

Voce and Roland make hardware organ boxes with drawbars that you can use live. And of course there are the B3 clones like Hammond Suzuki’s way overpriced (but excellent) XK3 , Roland’s VK8 and Korg’s CX3.

All you’re saying is that you yourself want one, but I don’t think market research would point to a very strong demand. There’s got to be a profit in it for the manufacturer.

Re: Yamaha, PLEASE create a modelled organ expansi

Dave, are you kidding??

Everywhere that I’ve posted threads about a possible Hammond PLG board, I’ve gotten insane amounts of interest.

Over at Harmony-central.com I’ve started several threads like this one and got at LEAST 10 to 15 people replying saying that they’d buy one in a heartbeat.

Same with the idea of Yamaha releasing a vintage keys expansion with FDSP synthesis like on the EX series for that ultra realistic pickup emulation for Rhodes and Clav voices.

From what I’ve seen, you’re about the ONLY person who has said that they wouldn’t be interested.  Most people think it’s a GREAT idea.

Re: Yamaha, PLEASE create a modelled organ expansi

I’m not interested.

Now there are two people who aren’t.  /forums/images/icons/wink.gif alt=

Re: Yamaha, PLEASE create a modelled organ expansi

Make that three! /forums/images/icons/wink.gif alt= As I’ve said in previous threads, as has mhschmieder, you can only go so far with the organ sound itself. A lot of what makes the organ is the physical controllers i.e. drawbars and the very quick triggering, waterfall keyboard.

Personally I would view an organ PLG as $250 or so that I could be putting towards a CX-3 or something like that.